Do i italicize book titles in my essay

Let's talking about do i italicize book titles in my essay.

The Printcolor digital press, specialized in the printing of comics and manga gives you an entrance. The Salón del Manga will have a total of 75,000 square meters in this edition. Easily and quickly, it allows loading and extracting data from each work together with rich content. All the information about the book will be available for the commercial chain in Spain and abroad. Click here for more information about Dilve. In this interview he tells us about his work as an editor and the relationship between his publishing house and the printing press. When we considered Dokusou, we said that we would publish "those books that, as readers, we would like to see in our library". We did not define genres as such, we made the exception of poetry that we did not believe we could judge and edit it. And, you see, the reality is that we publish everything, including poetry. From historical novels to juvenile fantasy novels, through more costumbristas titles or the black novel with which we are going to end the year. We have been lucky enough to be able to get several regional distributors and a stronger one that gives us national coverage. Of course, without forgetting the best tool we have right now that is internet and sales through our website and digital platforms. The book on paper is present and is the future of the publishing world. For years it has been said that electronic formats would supersede the physical book and it is clear that this is not the case. At least with the current reality, it does not seem that there is going to be a radical change in this sense. For us the paper book gives a point of magic to the work that digital is not able to achieve. Because of our way of understanding the process of creating a book for us, it is essential that they be easy and fluent. And that as a rule should be easy since in a certain way interests are shared. It is difficult to choose one, possibly the advice, we are an editorial that has not yet completed two years. Our lack of experience in many fields is clear and having someone to talk to and who will recommend and facilitate the work is something really essential. Without a doubt, the digital press gives us something that in the current market rhythm is vital, immediacy. The very short response times for us allow us to make adjusted runs at the moment, being able to respond to market demands practically the same as if we had a full warehouse. I would not know what to answer to this, for live titles, I think not, at least not in the markets where you can be present. To maintain works that otherwise would be discontinued can be an option. Or as I said before for markets where we can not be. We are doing initial runs of between 300 and 400 copies, we can do this knowing that in a few days we can have as many in case of need. We share the deal with the authors, the reading of manuscripts, the edition of the texts, the response to distributors or the organization of events depending on the workload of each one. Although some of us are more specialized than others in some areas, in a small company it is essential that the work can be carried out by any of the members. From medium to micro, in order to survive, we must specialize and demonstrate a quality that is not demanded of those same greats. It is an exciting and worthwhile adventure. They say that an image is worth a thousand words, look at one of our books and you will see that next to our name appears yours. I want to tell you that it is a privilege and a pride for us to work with Printcolor. Honestly I do not think we would have reached where we are without you by our side. We know we will go further but as I said before, it will be working together. This year it will celebrate its 35th Anniversary. This edition will be the biggest meeting International book in Spanish, with the ability to offer business opportunities, knowledge and networking adapted to the current needs of the book industry. Liber 17 will pay special attention to digital content, new editors, desktop publishing and intellectual property. Printcolor will be delighted to visit our Stand: 14H17. As an Autoeditor you can learn more about the possibilities we offer in self-publishing and the solutions that we put at your disposal to publish your books. If you are Editorial, we also have solutions specially created to be your trusted printer. The author-editor has to promote it with his own means. In addition, the name of the blog will help you locate your book in Google searches. Create a facebook profile as an author and add those interested in your work and offer them exclusive details of your new book. Use a twitter account to maintain direct and immediate contact with your readers Send a copy of your book to a literary publication to make it known as a novelty and see if they publish, at least, a reference. Get a portal, blog or literary website to do an interview about your book. Inform your friends and acquaintances about your book so that they can comment it to third parties. Participate in some act or conference as a writer and take the opportunity to publicize your new book. Offer to sell your book to a bookstore and promote it with a good discount. Give your book to whoever you want to read it, if you like it, sure you will promote it. Organize a presentation of your book and invite all your readers to the event. It is about three romantic novels with a background of mystery and suspense, set in a fictional city called Boira. Printcolor organized the presentation of the trilogy in the library LibrUp. The Interview with the Author Your novels are not just a love story, what ingredients are readers going to find in your trilogy? In The Secrets of Boira, above all mystery and suspense, the romantic plot is present throughout the novel, however, although it is constant, it remains in the background. The reader will also find paranormal brushstrokes and characters with great force, not only the protagonists, but also the secondary ones have a lot to say. Boira exists in my mind and I hope that also in my readers after reading. I do not think it is difficult to write about love, love is everywhere, it surrounds us. Sincerely I have no idea how you learn to write romantic literature, personally before writing I read a lot of this genre, maybe that will help me. So, thinking a lot about my answer, although I put my heart to my writings, in the end it is the head that guides me the most. One of the things that helped me after searching for editorials and not finding an answer or finding a few refusals was asking someone in the sector to do a reading report. When I decided that I wanted to dedicate myself to writing, filling blank pages, creating characters and worlds and giving them life, the last thing I wanted was to self-publish. Now I can not be happier with the decision I made there in February of last year, to stop waiting for a publisher to bet for me and do it for myself. Personally I like when I finish a story let her breathe, let her go, give her distance and catch her again with new eyes after a while to rewrite it. When you have that first copy in your hand it's the biggest rush I've ever experienced, it's indescribable. After the copies escape your hands to fall into the readers and every time someone contacts me explaining how my story has come or made you feel, when they encourage me to continue writing, is the greatest satisfaction. It's amazing to be not only able to have created a world, characters and a story, but also to be able to awaken emotions in others. Take a look at the YouTube video on how to print your book for free. I consider myself family, sociable, pleasant and friend of my friends. Nothing closed to new stages in life and every day more passionate of that action something forgotten by imposed fashions, which is to love life in a natural way. All this with an inordinate realism, giving it a passionate character, remembering the experiences of my father and my family. Also intercalo truthful historical events to give more strength to the plot, all unlinked in a comfortable reading that hooks to reach their last pages. If it is written with the passion and realism of the nipa's whispers, yes. Smells, sounds, sensations and intuitions that are awakened by being in an area totally opposite to the one known by the character, will alert the reading of this novel. The main protagonist of the novel is based on the stories that your father told you, has that helped you or limited the time to write it? He has helped me a lot, he talked about Guinea with so much passion and affection that he fascinated me, and it has helped me to recreate his experiences. It was so close that I did not limit you in any way the ways of living in that land, on the contrary I magnified it in such a way that I fell in love with Africa, even knowing its risks and difficulties compared to a European life. My family's own home, my father's own writings about life in the rainforest and of course reviewing a lot of newspapers and web pages. If you can comment on the design of the cover of the book. It is photographed and made by a friend writer and photographer of mine, all its elements are original of my house, objects of my property and the images are real of the Hernández family. This was how it was lived in Equatorial Guinea. You published your book with a publisher, how have they helped you? Once I started writing it was always with the idea of ​​publishing it and making it known, for this help has been very important in everything that involves taking to the street a work of an inexperienced author like me. Let them do it without any doubt, ask questions, ask questions, read and observe other writers. Writing therapy is a way to open horizons in each one. It gives you very positive values ​​and ways of thinking, it recreates your mind in such a way that it makes you see more details of life that previously went unnoticed. It is highly recommended to write without a doubt. It was your first novel, what have you learned from this whole creative process? Order, imagination, read a lot of different knowledge of those around me. Meet new friends with much more experience than me, who help you create. In general rules, to see beyond the line imposed by a closed society with imposed norms, has given me values ​​that in certain cases I had forgotten. In addition to providing the possibility to self-publishers to have a physical library to sell their books, LibrUp is also a cultural space where presentations, talks and other events related to the world of books are organized. LibrUp is an atypical library, since its main objective is to reconcile the popup concept with the sale of books, that is, to give our space to independent and self-published authors so that they can expose their works at street level in exchange for some fees. To all those who have a self-published work and do not get sales channels open to the general public. In addition to selling books, what activities are carried out in the bookstore? As a bookseller, how do you see the world of desktop publishing? Suddenly, his life, thanks to an act of courage and courage carried out during the race, takes a 180 degree turn. The reward for his heroism will lead him to embark on an intriguing trip overseas to the Spanish colony of Equatorial Guinea. There is a financing option that you can use to support the publication of your book through the so-called crowdfunding. It is a system of patronage or financing collective that allows you to gather the economic resources to make the dream of publishing your book a reality. Crowdfunding is a funding formula by which the project of publishing and publishing a book can get ahead thanks to small contributions from people interested in them. In exchange for financial aid, patrons receive a reward. The rewards are gifts or services that the sponsors will receive for contributing money to the campaign if they finally manage to reach the objective in the foreseen time. There are different proposals and crowdfunding platforms to publish your book that we will comment next. One of the most popular platforms for crowdfunding is Verkami. Its operation consists in the publication of a project for which a collection objective is established. As of its publication, a period of 40 days begins in which the project has the opportunity to collect the amount established as the objective. Only projects that reach at least 100% of their funding objective within 40 days will receive the money contributed by their sponsors. Otherwise, the amounts that the sponsors have committed to contribute are not effective and the project will not receive funding. Verkami charges for its services 5% of what the project collects and only in case it obtains financing. To receive these contributions, the person responsible for the project must establish different levels of reward based on the amounts that he will receive. In some cases, the rewards can also be a percentage of the profits generated by book sales. In case of not achieving the objective, all the contribution commitments of the patrons are canceled. That is why it is very important to establish a realistic and very precise budget. Printcolor also indirectly supports book crowdfunding. Thus, if an author has a crowdfunding project to publish his book Printcolor, he can commit himself to that project by becoming a patron and contributing a minimum of € 20. The author can also request a free print sample of the book to see how it looks. In this way, the book will be perfectly printed and published by its publisher with the guarantee and quality of this printing specialist in the printing of self-publishing books. If you need more information you can visit Printcolor's blog and an advisor can contact the author. If applicable, it only covers book publishing projects. Depending on the type of support chosen by the patrons, they will receive as a reward from the paper book with their name on the thank-you pages, to the original manuscript with the editor's corrections, as well as many other rewards. It is a crowdfunding platform dedicated exclusively to publishing projects. The authors present their work with the technical support of the publisher that evaluates and estimates the economic needs to publish and distribute the work. The patrons support the project by making it a reality, receive their prizes and become "partners". The books go to the distribution and the royalties that the book can generate for the sales are shared with the author and the patrons. It is a black novel of intrigue located in the city of San Sebastian in the fifties of Franco. The novel has been edited by the author and printed by the printcolor digital printing press. It tells a family drama, centered on the figure of Margarita Clarín, a despotic and cruel mother who weaves a very particular universe around. Ana and her sisters have lived their whole lives under her influence, dominated by her twisted way of understanding life. So much so, that Ana has had to go to Madrid to be herself, and literally escape the suffocating personality of her mother. Visiting your well-known corners of your hand is discovering it again, and feel at another level. The novel portrays a family drama, is it a psychological novel? The relationship between Margarita Clarín and her daughters is very particular, and weaves a survival network throughout the novel. The dinner that each of the three sisters has and even Margarita's husband to overcome her, is a real mental effort, which keeps the reader overwhelmed the whole novel. And it is not only reflected in the characters, but in the city itself and the environment. The whole set is designed to harass the reader and feel the same as Ana and her sisters. Women are the protagonists of the novel, is it a coincidence? No, the woman has been in all my novels, and in the next she will be too. Margarita Clarín is a female character who hates those of her gender, and who tries to eradicate in her daughters everything that produces aversion from their distorted vision of the role they should have in life. It is a subject that worries me a lot, the fact that it is systematically about telling women what they should be and how they should be. There is still a lot of work to be done in this regard. Each and every one is authentic. The three sisters actually represent two generations that suffered a mother who later became a grandmother. Daughters and granddaughters live through the three sisters, childhood and maturity as well. In this way the two generations have their experiences embodied at the same time, sharing them together in an accomplice. It is as if they reveal their secrets to each other, uncovering their truth and speaking with absolute clarity, even telling themselves things they never dared to say out loud. I wanted San Sebastian to appear. The Clocks of the Shell are a key and recognized point of the city, the rain speaks of that sad and perennial atmosphere, and the red umbrella is a call to rebellion. I made a series of photographs looking to portray an Ana Murria looming over the bay, contemplating her city under the rain that suffocates her, protected under that red umbrella that is her rebellion. The scenario of the novel is San Sebastián, why did you choose this city? The real characters lived in San Sebastian, and the fact that such a beautiful city hosts such a terrible story has its own. That under a harmonious and seductive facade facing the one who visits it for the first time, there can be such a great evil. Margarita Clarín appeared to be a thing before the outsiders, sympathy, elegance, generosity... and it was something else entirely different from her own family. To be able to dress truths, however difficult they may be, of fiction, and transfer them to the reader in the form of a novel of intrigue. Communicate, make people feel, make people see, even if they sometimes tell things that you do not want to know. Do not lose sight of your goal. Do not think about who is going to read you, do not even think about being successful, just write and give the best of you ♦ And here ends the interview with the author and I hope that you are encouraged to read her fascinating novel of intrigue. If in the title there is a word in italics, then we will have to write it in quotation marks. Point is never written after the titles and subtitles of the books. The booktrailer is a short video that serves to present or promote the book. Thanks to the booktrailer we direct the sale of the book to multimedia readers. Through the combination of music, still images, recorded sequences and other effects, the booktrailer allows you to highlight the most attractive aspects of the book. It is a marketing technique to sell the work, a small ad to sell your book. Everything must be suggestive to encourage reading and never reveal the plot. The purpose of the booktrailer is to generate interest, expectation and desire to read the complete book and not just to review the booktrailer. We are interested in selling copies, not counting the viewing number of the booktrailer. Youtube and Vimeo Once the booktrailer has been published, you have to start spreading it. We recommend host it on Youtube or similar websites like Vimeo so that it can be seen by thousands of people. The goal is for the booktrailer to later be disseminated through the blog, web pages or social networks through the web link where it is located. Booktrailer portals On the Internet, there are specific portals to publish videos that have the purpose of promoting a book. Of all of them, we highlight ConocralAutor. It is a project of diffusion and promotion of creation in the Ibero-American sphere, organized around the audiovisual commentaries that the authors make of their own work. Now it will turn out that the authors will also have to act as "actors" of booktrailers. In any case, before having the booktrailer ready, you have to edit and print the book We find ditoriales and printers that offer to create a booktrailer for the presentation and promotion of the book. A fast-paced sci-fi thriller, with political and religious overtones and a slight touch of eroticism, a work that has bestseller wood. His book has garnered great praise from Amazon readers. We commented in this interview with Manuel Dorado how his journey has been until becoming a success self-publisher. It's your first novel and it's magnificent. The first thing I did was to consider learning literary techniques as an academic education. I read a lot and many and diverse authors. Everything contributes and shapes the writer. Trying to master the techniques and define and work the right technique for each story is fundamental in my work. Creative writing is a very serious profession and requires training and practice. And that he reads a lot and many and diverse authors. Then comes the literary execution. And there is no muse that skips it or redeems you from doing it. Without trade, hard work and technique, there are no happy ideas or muses worth. I had designed covers before and I have knowledge of graphic design and composition of covers. The idea came from the leitmotiv of the novel: "a man with the ability to bring all his desires to reality is a god and is also condemned to his power". The challenge for me was to make it different and make it mine. If I could make an Adam of gold, I could have a cover. Computer graphic design did the rest. As a self-publisher, have other professionals helped you? I usually tell that I started absolutely this adventure alone, but at this point of the road there are many who have offered to help me. Printcolor has been fundamental for the production and the beginning of the distribution. Your book is a sales success. The distribution by Amazon is ideal for the independent author. Of course, it is not easy for someone unfamiliar with the world of distribution. Here I want to point out that I wanted to be a writer, not a publisher or distributor or publicist; although now I consider myself part of these guilds and I am delighted. I have a comic monologue in which I relate the day I tried to sneak in with two boxes of books on Amazon. People laugh when I tell it, but I really felt like a Mr. Bean. However, and despite the vicissitudes, all the incidents with Amazon are resolved and respond very quickly. The books go well and smoothly. And they reach the readers, who was and is my goal. I wanted a good product: a librazo in content and in continent. And having a good printed book and also distribute it well on the Internet, at the same time, does not have an easy solution. I do not know how I would have approached it without Printcolor. Once your novel is published, what is it that most satisfies you as an author? Without a doubt, the reaction of the readers. That was my goal and I think it's achieved. Only the editorials need to arrive. The interest and satisfaction of the public is already demonstrated. And if the readers are interested, the publishers will be interested too. I have already done my job of writing and pushing this book to the world. And to finish the interview, encourage other authors to follow the steps of the writer Manuel Dorado and edit and print your book. You know that being a self-publisher is not an easy path, that requires a lot of effort and skills and that not always the enthusiasm of the author ends with a work published at the height of his illusions. He is alone before the danger and, unless you are a polyfacetic genius, you have to be modest and ask for some help from a professional in the book editing tasks. It is always a pleasure to recommend a great self-publishing book. On the other hand, if you want to edit and print books I advise you to go to Printcolorweb.com services. Manuel Dorado did it and now you can enjoy his excellent work. The minimum content of the contract The publishing contract must be formalized in writing and must in any case express: Exclusivity or otherwise of the assignment of the author to the publisher. Maximum and minimum number of copies that will reach each edition that is convenient. Form of distribution of copies and those reserved for the author, criticism and promotion of the work. Term for the putting into circulation of the copies of the first or only edition that may not exceed two years from the time the author gives the publisher the work in conditions to be reproduced. Term in which the author must deliver the original of his work to the editor. The edition in the form of a book The contract must express: The language or languages ​​in which the work is to be published. The advance to be granted, where appropriate, by the publisher to the author on account of his rights. The modality or modalities of edition, and the collection of which it will be a part. The obligations of the editor Are the editor's obligations: Play the work in the agreed form. Submit the tests of the print run to the author. Proceed to the distribution of the work. Assure the work a continuous exploitation and commercial diffusion. Return to the author the original of the work. The obligations of the author The author's obligations: To deliver to the editor in due form the work that is the subject of the edition. Respond to the editor of the authorship and originality of the work. Correct the tests of the print run. The causes of termination of the contract The publishing contract is extinguished: Due to the termination of the agreed term. For the sale of all copies. For the lapse of ten years from the assignment if the remuneration had been agreed to lump sum. In any case, fifteen years after the author has placed the editor in a position to make the reproduction of the work. It also decides the location and location of the publisher. It has a minimum team of professionals composed of an editorial director, a proofreader and editor of texts and a layout designer and editorial designer, who can be on staff or outsourced. Choose the legal form of the publisher, for example a limited company. If you do not want to set it up, the option is to register as a self-employed worker. Signature between the editor and the author an editing contract that regulates your relationships. Calculate the budget and print books from the catalog in a printing press of trusted books. It fulfills the obligation of the legal deposit as publisher to deliver copies of the works in its offices. It is an excellent reference book and updated on this group of animals that has the collaboration of eminent specialists in the field. The work is illustrated with luxurious photographs and detailed files of species of carnivores that inhabit the Iberian Peninsula. The book of Carnivores is a work written by the best specialists of the moment of each species. Each chapter is a monograph in itself written by a PhD in Biology, an expert researcher and international reference in the field. The compendium that many expected and that is already here. Its reading will make the reader attentive, and in addition, you will be able to know more about each species if you visit the places suggested. The Iberian lynx is the most threatened feline in the world. Only because of this is it worth it Make every effort to keep it. In addition to its beauty, it is an emblematic species for conservation and also an umbrella species. To anyone who wants to enter the world of Carnivores. To all those readers tired of mere superficial guides of "copy and paste" and who were left wanting to know more. To all those who want to study their habits, start expeditions to see them or simply enjoy the contemplation of the photographs in the book. In your book you can choose the cover. What do you think of this option of personalizing the cover for the reader? Printcolor has made this possible. It is a new step to the personalization of the book. Really a fantastic initiative that has made this book, even more special. Very laborious, coordinate more than 15 authors of international level is not easy. This is why the final result has more merit, and that is why I do not believe that anything similar will happen again. Since the publication of the texts, the creation and design of the structure of the book through a complex layout has produced a work that has happily succeeded. First have a very clear idea of ​​the final result of the book. From there, make a meticulous action plan that defines the design of the book. Once this point is achieved, the rest is just work. The layout is a service that Printcolor offers and that we should not worry about. The planning and the objective of the book must be our true priority. Like the author Marcos Lacasa, I encourage the self-publishers to print books. And I also advise that if you want to print a book go to a printing press with experience in self-publishing that allows you, thanks to the printing of variable data, to customize the cover or a page of the book. Yniesta is also a novelist, also a poet and has published a compilation of poems in the collection Poesia dolça. The Middle Ages is the crudest moment in our history. It was the end of many concepts and was full of emotions without debugging, ideal for writing a novel. The castles were the starting point and the end to many battles. It was believed that behind their walls they were protected from all evil. First of all a plot of intrigue and action, where several parallel stories are mixed with a shared outcome. Also an agile reading and without superfluous additions. History has been respected with rigor. Therefore, we find little in his biography. To get to it I had to look in parallel chronicles, like those of the king himself, and for the dates and places I have reviewed ecclesiastical documents. To build a pleasant and attractive plot and build it on a firm floor of dates, events and historical places. That gives truth to a story even if it is fictional. I would advise you to get carried away by what the characters tell you and avoid accumulating too much data. A historical novel is not a biography. As a self-publisher of books, what is the most important thing about this whole process? There is not an important moment, all are. First the work must be created. Secondly, you should design properly, looking for an attractive cover. And when we have the finished product, we must forget for a moment that we are writers and give a promotion and distribution to our novel. Thanking the author for the interview, wishing him success with his book and if you want to print books, trust a good printing press. Word is powerful enough to lay out your book, especially books with only text, as long as you know how to take advantage of it. The basic steps for layout in Word are: Set the size of a document page. Set margins for each page. Select: Type of letter, Body. Insert the Number of pages in the document. Check spelling for the last time through the built-in Word checker. Make a test print with your personal printer. Decide if the book you want to print it with a cover with a hard cover, the type of paper inside, etc. I advise you to calculate the print budget before launching to print. Thanks to digital printing it is now possible to customize each copy of the book. You can change the cover of each book or dedicate each copy to a reader. The book ceases to be the product of a print run to become a unique, unique and personal object. The personalization of the book is an added value more, much more than the simple gift wrapping of a book. The printing of variable data is changing the way of understanding the content of a book. With this technique it is possible to change from the cover to the last page, modify texts, images, turning the book into a unique work and a product tailored to the reader. In Printcolor digital printing they are specialists in printing variable data books. Illustrated with abundant photographs and written about recognized specialists in each species allows to choose one among four proposed covers. For that reason, I advise you that if you self-publish your book you also do it with the printing of variable data as a personal recognition to each reader. A journalist for more than two decades, he has worked in all areas of communication, but in January 2012 he started a new path in the world of literature. He has written two novels: El viaje de Pau and this latest novel. He is a great defender of self-publishing. The expression captures perfectly the essence of the novel. Alberto, the protagonist, is left alone and lost after the death of his son and the abandonment of his partner. Because the reality of the sector does not invite optimism. Getting an editorial contract is no guarantee of anything, since the author is the weakest and most underrated link in the chain. The desktop publishing allows you total control over the work. Of course, you have to be willing to take risks and work hard. Which results in a final product with the same quality as if it had the stamp of the best of the publishers. Independent authors must be as self-demanding, rigorous and critical as an editorial with our work would be. The reader should feel that he has a professionally finished book in his hands. The fifty proposed technological projects allow to obtain fully functional replicas of different instruments, equipment and devices that can be created with a 3D printer. To people who like robotics and 3D printing, being of great interest to teachers and students of these technologies. No prior knowledge is required although for the newer ones, it is recommended to start with the simplest projects. Tell us about some book robotics project. One of the most successful has undoubtedly is the teleoperated robotic finger. Personally I find it more pleasant to read a physical book. For me, a book is something alive that I like to play. That's why I'm looking for the highest quality in what I publish. First of all, select the topic to be treated very well, preferably innovative, as well as the target audience. Use a manageable book format, and an attractive interior layout and color. The cover also plays an important role. The author can write and layout the interior, and even the cover, by himself, and using popular office tools. For the first edition, digital printing is always better, since it allows smaller print runs, being able to put the book on the street with a lower investment. Not only your circle of relatives, friends and acquaintances, but there are a lot of readers who would be happy to read your book but still do not know that you have published it. For this, the first thing we suggest is that you organize a presentation of your book. For any author it is a great illusion and a pride to present his book after many months of effort writing alone. It is a way to promote and publicly disclose your book, allows you to personally contact your readers, sell your book and dedicate it to each of them. The presentation of the book is always one of the most special days for the author. Surely after organizing the first presentation you are encouraged to make other presentations, since the author-reader contact is always very rewarding and is a way to get your copies out. We also advise you to create a personal blog as an author. In addition, through the blog you can sell your book directly. On the other hand, the blog will make it easier for third parties to search Google for your book. Create a Facebook profile as an author. Post entries about the book, communicate with your readers and generate events. All this will help you create a community with your readers and promote your book on the internet. Talk about your book, write a review and interview. In this way, you will reach more readers. As for the sale of your book, the market is global, either through the internet or the physical bookstores. There are millions of books that are for sale and you have to try to make yours special for some reason. The author is also licensed in biology and biochemistry. This work is part of the Icarus Collection of the aforementioned editorial, dedicated to science fiction, steampunk and the adventure genre. But it is also a historical novel. I have tried to recreate in detail the context in which events take place to give credibility to a dystopian Barcelona, ​​although as tangible as any tourist who wanders through its streets could know. Although some photographs of the time are preserved, most of the historical documentation was extracted from a magazine that began to be published in 1886, which was called "La Exposición" and which I discovered by chance. In it, the progress made over the years in the preparations for the Universal Exposition, prior to its official inauguration on May 20, 1888, was described in great detail. Digitized copies were also very useful for me. from the newspaper "La Vanguardia", published since 1881, and which I was able to consult easily through the internet. It is difficult to write, and even more to publish, but in spite of patience and perseverance I believe that they are the necessary elements to achieve the goal that one sets for oneself. Also read, read a lot, and write every day a little. The path is traveled walking and writing is like life, you evolve over time. The question is to practice and not get discouraged. Enter your email to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new entries. Email address By sending my personal information I confirm that I have read and accept the privacy policy. We use our own and third-party cookies to improve our services and show you advertising related to your preferences by analyzing your browsing habits. If you go on surfing, we will consider you accepting its use. You can change the settings or get more information here. We use cookies to ensure that we give the best user experience on our website. If you continue to use this site, we will assume that you agree. I agree Read more

Please do not edit the contents of this page. If you want to start a new discussion or continue an old one, please do it on the current discussion page. I start by reproducing the text that has recently been retired, which was originally written by Dalton 2. The subject is discussed, at the time of this writing, in this section of the Café. Thus, the widespread custom of writing the titles of the songs or the music albums beginning each word with a capital letter is incorrect in Spanish. In other languages, this is not the norm. The use of the capital letter in all the nouns and adjectives that are part of the title is a spelling anglicism what should be avoided. In periodicals, on the other hand, the nouns and adjectives that make up the title are capitalized. When a title of another language is mentioned in a text in Spanish, it is usual to follow the Spanish usage, that is, to write with initial capital only the first word. In other words, Wikipedia's objective in this aspect is not to reproduce the works of art, but to inform about them. Right: Between the sky and the ground. If the title contains another title embedded in parentheses, it will follow the same rules as if it were independent. This part was cited above, in Dalton's text2. It is also specified in the same place as "In periodicals and collections... the nouns and adjectives that make up the title are capitalized". The quotes for the parts of a work are used: here is the norm, in 2,. And the italics for the works In the same place we read that «the titles of books, on the contrary, are written in italics when they appear in texts printed in round letters». The use of the capital letter in all the nouns and adjectives that are part of the title is an orthographic anglicism that should be avoided. In periodicals, on the other hand, the nouns and adjectives that make up the title are capitalized. When a title of another language is mentioned in a text in Spanish, it is usual to follow the Spanish usage, that is, to write with initial capital only the first word. You can contact them at the following address if you wish to acquire a copy of this standard: www.aenor.es. In the titles of books, films, plays and songs, only the initial letter will be capitalized-unless they have a name of their own-whatever the rules may be regarding the language in which they are written. With one exception: the headers of periodicals, which always have an initial capital, except articles and prepositions. Regarding the italics: Section 2: Italic 4.27. In this case, the general title will be in italics, and that of the part, with single quotes. This Spanish version translates "the use of capital letters must be in accordance with the use of the language or the writing of the source from which the information was extracted". Compiled from what was discussed in the mentioned place of the Café and below in this same discussion. Because I thought today that we were writing an encyclopedia in Spanish. The link to the coffee discussion. Basically, and I will summarize again, for orthotypographic norms about the citations of English titles in texts written in Spanish we have two sources: the Academies and Sousa. I read the El País style manual that emanates from a company and only affects the internal ortho-typography of this publication, but it is not normative in a field external to the newspaper. If there are no orthotypography sources of equal or higher value than these, there is no doubt what the criteria are. I have included other possibilities because they were mentioned in the Café. Of course I do not propose to follow the Webster, but I find it useful to mention the origin of that way of writing the titles. Escarlati - write me 16:57 14 Sep 2008 There is another detail in the titles of works that I would like to comment here. My question is, since we know the spelling to use, would it be nonsensical to apply the same rules for grammar? And, more important, is there any pronunciation pronouncement by respectable sources about it? Dalton2 16:33 14 Sep 2008 Dalton, let's try not to confuse the issue. Grammar is not discussed in this thread, but the titles of Anglo-Saxon works. Martínez de Sousa maintains the first, without the exception regarding the bibliographical references. Which brings us to the center of the problem. This Spanish version translates "the use of capital letters must conform to the use of the language or the writing of the Source from which the information was extracted. "It is clear that when we provide the title of a book in a foreign language, we provide it in that language, eventually Latinizing or transliterating, to what the cited standards authorize. capital letters in English indicates that certain words are written in capital letters depending on the circumstances.There is another issue to which we must pay attention: the encyclopedic nature of the work we have in hand.As an encyclopedia, we intend accuracy.This is the title with which he put his author and with which the work was published, and since our purpose is to inform the reader, we can not use another.The opinion of Martinez de Sousa is repetabilísima, but it is only an opinion.Invariably, when the title is cited of a work in a foreign language, it is done in textual form, respecting the characteristics of capitalization of the original. le, first putting the need for precision and then the stylistic or orthographic criteria, is to abide by the conventions on capitalization of the original. The possible alternative of using two different style criteria in the text falls by its own incoherence. If you do, I will proceed to continue the debate with you. Escarlati - write me 12:24 Sep 15 2008 This is not how you proceed Escarlati. The problem that you have had with Cinabrium, a problem that I do not know, must be resolved among you in the discussion page of each one. Lampsako 14:22 Sep 15, 2008 Sorry, but who are you to tell two veteran Wikipedia users how to * resurrect their personal disputes? The request of Escarlati is legitimate, as Cinabrium's right to not proceed is legitimate. And you are not here any authority to judge attitudes. I did not tell two veteran users how to proceed. Hierarchies, the latter, who find common sense, consensus and, in short, all the spirit of communion and overcoming differences to which this project of Enciclopedia Libre aims. Lampsako 15:47 Sep 15, 2008 Thank you very much, Cinabrium, for your input. It would be necessary to see if they are or are only rules of style. This is the title with which the author put it and with which the work was published; and since our purpose is to inform the reader, we can not use another. " b) But the thing can still be taken further. It is also possible that in the future the English will renounce this style rule: suddenly lots of books will be dispossessed of their authors, etc. I think so and for my part, unless good objections are presented, I am willing to take them on. If it is not a useless task, of course, I think not. When you say that the titles could not be translated more than by way of a license. That is correct, the translations made by the publishers have a license to translate and market such copyrighted material under the title in which it was produced. Lampsako 5:16 PM September 15, 2008 Thank Lampsako. What the "license" said in another sense, perhaps I did not choose the best expression, I meant something like "take liberty", as in the "poetic licenses" a bit. He wanted to say that translating the titles would be pure gratuity, a gesture without value, taking literally that "precise being" of Cinabrium. But go, this point does not matter, does not affect the main thing. Let's not lose energy at that point. Also, I ask: Would this convention of titles in their original language be extended to other intellectual creations, such as books or movies? Finally, I request a reasonably close objection to the deletion of the section on this subject that the Resped user introduced without agreeing with the users who were still debating. That is why the use of conditional and the posing of the two possible scenarios. Actually, I think I've explained myself wrongly. When we make the bibliographic reference, we must respect the title assigned in the edition that we are referencing. In my opinion, a good encyclopedic article should also mention the title of the original publication. Frankfur am Main: Suhrkamp, ​​1974. Edition by Wilhelm Weischedel. Since it only establishes the exception for German, it is legitimate to infer that the criterion will apply to the rest of the languages; and since in English there are nouns and adjectives that have an initial capital, I find there the contradiction with Spelling. It would then be essential to know what scientific arguments are presented by each of the sources, which have not yet been expressed in this discussion. Cinabrium has been very honest, since, being a bureaucrat, he has brought to the fore the term argumentum ad vercundiam in the presence of novices. I just hope it is consistent with that. Dalton2 17:51 17 Sep 2008 To Cinabrium: thanks for the refs, now it is necessary to summarize the content or reproduce the decisive phrases. I see a mistake, simply. The capital S is even more rare. I am very sure because I read German editions in Gothic letters and V was still that way in the 1930s and such. As for broadcasters and others. In everything that is conventional, such as linguistic norms, an authority is established and it is decided to follow it. We may not have traffic lights but having them has advantages. One can always question the infinite: but that is exactly why the convention is for that. Because, if not, I always go first. But there are cases in which the norm leaves gaps: what is done then? But if we do not follow them, the hecatomb hoygan!, you know. Examples: The use of the capital letter in all the nouns and adjectives that are part of the title is an orthographic anglicism that should be avoided. »- In Spanish, in effect. I will have to follow the UNE norms and put it according to the English usage. It is still an interpretation because the wording of the text is somewhat ambiguous, but it is perfectly plausible, right? Dalton2 13:40 18 Sep 2008 As I said in the discussion on this topic in the cafe, I am absolutely against the capitalization of the initial. I think it's a barbased mix standards of two different languages, not to mention the huge change that would mean. 99% of publishers write the titles of foreign works of art in their language of origin and with their rules of origin. Miguel 14:08 18 Sep 2008 P.D. Dalton2 16:38 18 Sep 2008 Well, I must have been ambiguous because in the sentence in which "I'm not right" I said "in general" supposing that it would be understood that there could be exceptions. Because, in that "in general" you have to follow it, I think you will agree. Or, if not, have we gone to the end of the jana i sacabao the plovlema? Anyway, maybe you have to ask another question. Osadía is not, Dalton2, because they have a page for consultations that is open to anyone. Of course, we must explain everything well and it is complicated. You can contact them at the following address if you wish to acquire a copy of this standard: www.aenor.es. And in that case, what happens if we choose not to do "the most frequent" or "usual"? Incidentally, I have found that here it is prescribed to correctors of minor errors that follow the norm for Spanish titles always. That text would have to be modified in accordance with what results from this discussion. And, what is more serious, who is going to be the handsome one who dares to create a new academy when ours throws in the towel? Perhaps what many want is to start doing the same thing that happened with Latin in the fifth century, from whose vulgar speech was born the Castilian. 20:17 21 Sep 2008 Of course, having no academy has its advantages. Languages ​​are formed by mistakes like these, and if it were not for them, we would still speak Latin. Language evolves, and we should not put obstacles in it. I would like to unify the letters and numbers, uppercase and lowercase, and the signs in a single alphabet, without rules. It would be great, and I mean it, but would it be worth it? They say that man is the only being that stumbles twice on the same stone, but, I would add, a millennium is not enough to learn from his mistakes. Or, an outlaw, they call him "bandit." For many years, the Spaniards were talking in prose without knowing. And, what is even worse, without realizing how backward we were. In my ignorance, I thought I was doing gymnastics. Fortunately, all this has already changed, and the Spaniards notice the change simply when we speak, which is very important. Things, in another language, improve a lot and have greater importance. Especially in English, which is the language that commands. Since New York is the capital of the world, no one is really modern as long as he does not say a minimum of one hundred words in English. From this point of view, the Spaniards are already completely modernized. Moreover, I believe that today in the world there is no one to match us. Which shows our openness and our ability to improve ourselves. Given such a scenario, it is better to laugh than to cry. In the world of business or sport, do not even think of using another word that handicap, or else you'll think you're a layman. And pronounce it well, that is, in English, or they will also think that you are uneducated. And then the flood of acronyms of everyday use has arrived, all accepted as necessary neologisms, but which are still common names in capital letters. Sure, it's more modern, how I had not noticed. In short, they have a better academy than ours: the Simpsons series - in the absence of bread, good are cakes. So, now I'm going to start talking a little about the "universal spirit" of Americans. Put to give, just the right thing. They call their national baseball championship "World Series" directly. There is a very simple reason: the economy. This entails one, literally speaking, a cultural invasion that in many aspects cancels the characteristics of the rest of the peoples for the benefit of the foreigners. One of the characteristics of the human being is his free will, but when it comes to large masses, that characteristic disappears. And it is enough that, through television, or internet, we put a finger in front of our path so that the entire column of ants is diverted at the whim of others. We are destroying the language of a flourishing culture centuries old, but that does not matter to us. Now, let's destroy the monuments! And, why not, let's destroy the forests and the animals! But I think that enriches the language, because now, instead of a word we have two, even if one comes from English and does not contribute anything special. The society works in such a way that in a few years the English words like "bacon" will be Castilianized and relegated by the genuine Spanish words, like a circle. And then they will re-import terms of the language they play, and Wikipedians from within 150 years or so will have the same discussion that we are having now;). Miguel 13:56 22 Sep 2008 P.D. Anyway it is seen that, at least this change has not been by consensus and request is reversed to respect the policies of Wikipedia and the community. Rolf - 安 锐 灵 14:53 22 Sep 2008 To Miguel, thanks for the compliment. You also do not write badly, though, explain that about the circle to the ancient Greeks or Romans. To both: I am going to give you an example of necessary neologism: a word recently coined, even if it seems to you a lie. It is about this: «awareness». Because I do not see it and I would appreciate it if you can see it so clearly. The sources are up if you want to quote them, because for that I have gathered them, to work on them. I repeat the question: and what do we do with the titles of articles? My opinion: In order to make some style rules, we must opt ​​for the most prescriptive, so that the proofreaders have clear what to expect. Mere "habituality" does not seem like a criterion. This choice is not to my liking. I also "shout" those capital letters, I dislike to accept the English rules when "they" do not accept ours, etc., but I think there is not much alternative. And if I'm wrong, please explain it clearly. That fashion of foreign words goes back a lot further back. The truth is that, for lack of reasons, good are excuses. I suppose that they will be working with the prudence that wisdom gives. Wikipedia is not a democracy project, but what else is left? Greetings David 21:56 26 Sep 2008 To see. The strongest argument for not respecting capital letters in album titles and songs in English seems to be that the English speakers do not respect our lowercase... Someone explains to me well how this became an argument. I do not agree with revenge in any way, I do not see anything positive in revenge. No thank you, I spend with that apocalypse. Greetings Lampsako 03:09 27 Sep 2008 I am not a supporter of voting unless it is shown that there is clear opposition of opinions. At this moment I think a consensus is quite possible, but more voices should be pronounced, so I have made a "call" in the Café to see if more people participate. I think everyone here is intelligent and sensible enough to get an objective idea of ​​the matter without the need for rhetorical rhetorical explanations. The explanation is for me, no one feels alluded. What I want to say with this message is that from now on I will stop exposing myself for what I think is not worth discussing. The vote, evidently, no. The consensus, yes, with its corresponding exceptions that confirm the rule. The "I", just as radical and unacceptable as the opposite pole. And I'm not willing to argue about that either. Dalton2 14:52 27 Sep 2008 Curious, you are not willing to argue about this and that, and yet you keep doing it. Some may think, not me, that it is clear, that your comment about the accent could be an indirect way of devaluing whoever wrote that way. The other "party" has not introduced modifications, unless reverting non-consensual changes. Greetings and I congratulate you for your balanced vision, again. There they tell you that the title in a work written in Spanish should be The sweet escape. So, seriously, let's stop thinking about it and start working and writing correctly. Escarlati - write me 17:02, 25 Oct 2008 But it also says very clearly, that it does not oblige Wikipedia to do that. It is simply that it is the institution that is responsible for the Spanish standard. What is of Spain is a fallacy, very repeated, but fallacy after all. I give you an example: we can not put donkey with «v» precisely because the Academies say it, and the opinion of a wikipedist has no validity. Another absurdity is to pretend that a name is copyrighted. So can not you write the name of a work by Picasso for example? To say "El Guernica" is to violate copyright? The problem is that I think it has been shown that this is not the case. Below we talk about using the norm of the origin language in refs. This is far from normative, but at least we know that it is not incorrect and it is even recommended. All right up here, I suppose. The question is: what about the titles of the articles? The only thing that is missing is to turn that into a wiki policy. And this does not make it less normative. I guess you know that they never use terms like: it's forbidden, it should never be written, etc. That is why the indications are valid anyway. Therefore I do not agree on that point. As for the argument that it is too lazy to change it, it does not seem like a very strong argument. That was also claimed with the adC versus a. C. or similar. It would be similar to those that use all initial capital letters even in works in Spanish, and the fact of not knowing the rule, should not exempt them from compliance. In fact, if someone sees it, he moves it, period. In my opinion there is always a time when you have to start doing things right, and the sooner, the better. And the first step would be that the style manual does not appear as provisional unless someone provides some linguistic source of equal or greater weight than the 22 Academies. And by the way, I note that style manuals of publishing companies or internal dispositions of non-linguistic organisms are not expert sources in linguistic regulations. You are in your right, but not in that of imposing it as a holy word and to accuse without any rhyme or reason of "false trick" to any attempt to provide sources and references. I will not discuss here the question of Transcarpathia, which has its own place. As for the Academies, it is not that they are sacrosanct, it is that they are normative. That's what it does, for example, that we write donkey with be. By the way, you still do not offer retraction or apologies for your insults. It would be good, and I say it sincerely, that you will retract. Maybe it's a matter of making a new query, more concrete and clear in the detail questions. In doing things right and as soon as I agree, as long as it is clear where the "good" is. And you're right, we should put a cross on them. In fact that is one of the main criticisms Martinez de Sousa makes to the academies: that they have that itch of not getting wet using euphemistic turns where they have to make decisions. And this is where the academic criterion applies. Now, I think you have answered twice, and the meaning is very clear. I am not in favor of making another query, ask a third time to be given a third response in the same way? I find it annoying to do so. Bibliography and Discography should be treated with the same criteria; It does not matter if a book is cited as an audiovisual material, there are rules for that. We only have the academic opinion that "the most frequent thing is to follow the Spanish norm", even if we do not have a clue as to what is the criterion with which this frequency analysis has been done. According to your criteria, should we write it as Because i am an englishman but in november? Cinabrium 02:06, 28 October 2008. Greetings David 21:25, 25 Oct 2008 Perfect, for you. Curious that there are no aboriginal words endorsed by the Academy. But anyway, you can think what you like, but your opinion about copyright and spelling is very misguided. The problem here is that the rule for wikipedia is to write well. The Academy itself is scalded by criticism after errors, and many, who has committed to enter something that does not understand. The academic norm is not absolute, especially when it comes out of its linguistic functions, as in this case. And going to the practical point of view: putting what the cover or cover says to identify a work of creation will never be wrong, because that is how the work identifies itself. Trying to amend that can pose enormous practical problems that have already been cited. Based on these criteria, a consensus could be obtained. To begin with, I think it's common sense to keep the 1st person pronoun in English in capital letters. From there we can generate consensus. What you should not do is modify the main page of the style manual without announcing it in this page of discussion, as Cinabrium has done, hiding the text that, already warns, is subject to debate. The opinion of a wikipedia as respectable as you, Javier, you know that it is not more than that, an opinion. Consider yourself, I am open to agreeing on a norm, but not of course, modifying without consensus on this page a sensitive issue. Cinabrium 19:12, 28 Oct 2008 Completely agree. There is not, in a certain way, a primary source, and the Academy in its response turns it around and it almost considers Wikipedia's own primary source! Style is what each one determines and there are no primary sources, except as "inspiration". Even the choice of source itself and its consideration of prestige, is something subjective. The only possibility, therefore, is to reach a consensus, as you point out. They are standards of style, something like dressing with such style or such other, the aesthetic conventions come and go. And besides, I would leave it as a mere recommendation and not as a mandatory norm. Finally, I said that it seemed to me better to keep as much as possible of the name of the original work, as long as it was written in western characters. They laughed at me here and there, others went over me looking for wikipedia policies to throw me in the face if I retracted, but you see, here I am. Yes, indeed, and I am happy to see myself mirrored now in your impartial vision and respect for the titles of foreign works. I agree with you that trying to adopt a convention of this WP will lead us to a dead end. But... would not it also be common sense to keep the other conventions of capitalization? But this is another dead end, on which I will argue later, if you allow me to abuse your patience. In my opinion, the only thing that gets us out of this berenjenal is to use the titles as they were published. This not only preserves the integrity of the reference, but also solves the problem of practicality. And this not only for titles in foreign languages. Also for titles in Spanish: the norm is clear, but the indication is in any case directed to the author, not the mere transcriber. If the author or editor decided to adopt a certain criterion, even if it is contrary to good academic practice, that is the name of the work. Cinabrium 19:12, Oct 28 2008 You do not abuse our patience, mine at least, because I found it pleasant to read you. Especially enlightening was the case of the work in Spanish. As you say, let's multiply this by the number of languages. Or, in other words, no matter how many rules you look for, you can not apply it in practice. I think that the sources given are very important, especially for an encyclopedia, and a uniformity and a better order in the writing would come in handy. I think that standard supports the way to put only initial capital in the first word, because if I say "I like the song 'The sharpest lives'", what am I reporting? That I like that song... and in what language am I giving that information? Thus, all sources agree that this is the correct way. The level is very high and I would say almost exclusively suitable for specialists. Undoubtedly the opinions of non-experts can turn out to be parvulitos interventions. However, I will risk lowering the level a little to the height of most users. I have a tendency to roll up, and, to avoid it, I will do it in a schematic way. For those things of fate I have three discs published. I gave the titles of the songs to the record company and they were in charge of printing. I just discovered the world of regulations in titles. Personally, if they tell me that they were not correct, I would like to put it correctly, but there are those who have argued that it should not be done. With the above I appeal to the strict respect of the primary source we do not clearly know where it can lead. From experience I know that doctors have a great tendency to use expressions and expressions of English, due to scientific colonization. One of my hallucinations is to see how you also master the rules in other languages. Yes, I have a unitary vision for the future. I would love that there were no language barriers between people. However, I did not study Esperanto. Desire and reality go distant ways, when not divergent. I understand that a language is a living entity, subject to evolution. At the user level, an impressive pedagogical work is being done. When a user is explained norms usually strives to comply with them and step inside them, so that they can remain as a cultural asset for their entire life. When in the Council of Trento they were years discussing the sex of the angels they did not realize that the tree covered them the forest and they allowed the extension of the same heresy that they tried to stop. I beg you, do not try to reach the absolute truth. I would settle for knowing the useful truth. Well, I ask for your indulgence with my daring meddling in the discussion. I just want to help you reach a decision. These are the problems that we are encountering when creating an encyclopedia as wide as Wikipedia. Escarlati - write me 23:52 11 Jan 2009 Maybe that should be discussed in the discussion of the article. I would like to follow the thread that came before adding the last subtitle. All the sources we have point towards the same direction. I think that is what was generally applied. The voting that began in that Café did not contemplate the possibility of capitalizing only the first letter, but the Spanish spelling. If the criterion we adopt is to use the same capitalization as in the original language, the solution is univocal, but differs from the aforementioned standards. But something important is that we have clarified this issue based on no less than 7 important sources. In the cases cited we knew because we had enough information about the works, but there will be cases where our source simply quotes the titles. 10:26 26 Jan 2009 Lin do you know this policy? I say this because I'm surprised you have not read it, as a librarian: It could be tempting to illustrate a point of view or an argument using parody or some kind of rupture experiment. For example, the user can apply a decision to various articles in a way that reflects the policy to which the user is opposed. You have quoted her several times when dealing with me, almost always without comment, as right now. The aforementioned paragraph warns against those who, to show the defects of a policy, apply it to its ultimate consequences to reduce it to absurdity. to leave them as fools, but not if I moved to Where could I go? Obviously I will not do either one or the other. I would cite policies about sarcasm, but nooo, it's a waste of time. 10:46 27 Jan 2009 Not at all warns against that. Warns against those who, in order to demonstrate by way of force an opinion contrary to the policies, decide to edit the articles to support their opinion. What's more, the title of the initial section is Explain your position; do not show it by the way of the facts. I think you should reread that policy because, even though you're a librarian, it seems that you have not understood it. You are talking about the second section, "Abuse of the rules of the system"; I from the first one, that I can explain to you with an example. A user decides that he does not like policy X, and decides that he will proceed to edit the articles by skipping or contravening that policy, instead of arguing to change it. Well, what is usually done with a user who behaves like this is to warn him and, if he continues down that road block him. I limit myself to comply and try to enforce the policies. Escarlati - write me 13:21 27 Jan 2009 I was referring to the paragraph quoted. It is not relevant because it is very far from my behavior to play with the articles. I'm here arguing why it's a bad idea to maintain that provision, is not it? We need to know what we do with other alphabets that also distinguish between uppercase and lowercase. If we reproduce a title in Greek or Cyrillic and the rule is not to keep it as in its original language, the copier will need to know how to change what letters and how to do it. Those who know these rules are not many, but there are not many titles in Greek and in Cyrillic! What we have is an immense majority of thousands of titles in English, and English standards are not that complicated. Most of the titles are also simple, things like In my life or I love you, and in the collection of sources we have realized that most of them are written incorrectly. I will also put footnotes with the references proposed above most appropriate. That section should not have been modified in the beginning since there was no consensus. It still does not exist, so the modification should be reversed. We have used sources of weight in the field and all, absolutely all of them agree that the most appropriate way is to adapt capital letters to Spanish style. Actually, the difference is clear, and I do not know what else is expected. Also, you say that another opinion, in which you include yourself, defends order and uniformity. Both proposals defend order and uniformity, which is also given in the other proposal, not yours, by not altering the original titles of the works. The latter seems to me the best uniformity and the best order. I said, that it seems good to me to recognize the existence of more than one opinion. With capital letters as I transcribed them. In your last message you wrote "you do not have the appropriate support". Yes, I have, an ergonomic chair. You also say "There are those who can demonstrate convincingly that they are right". I can not think of answering this. You also say that "the difference is clear". Until you explain what difference you mean, I'm on fire. Well, let's see if we take the non-consensual paragraph of the Manual, which is already being time. Lampsako 00:44 7 Mar 2009 Uf! I understand how you interpret this rule, but I think you do it wrong. When you write an article in the Wikipedia in Spanish, you are reporting, and you do it in Spanish. I do not think so, I think you did it. I had already referred to it here. Effectively this defends the Anglo-Saxon form, so I discarded it, but that's fine. About the publishers that write in the Anglo-Saxon style and the book you're referring to, I think it's logical to worry about our writing and not about others. I think you have an initial concept error. Neither one of the options is in itself incorrect or correct. Or other problems that arise, I do not know, maybe legal. Well, I extended myself, I hope you find my reflection aloud helpful. Greetings Lampsako 03:41 10 Mar 2009 What a lot of explanations you have asked for! But you have not wanted to say the same thing as me with that phrase of yours. That they are not correct or incorrect by that fact, does not mean, even remotely, that we should not look at them. Yes you have to do it and more, it seems an important fact. One of the factors why it is important is that it does not fall on us in the construction of this encyclopedia the task of determining how it is correct to write, but how to write. It would be the same, we would be determining how to write. Accuracy, this can result in something incorrect and the closest thing here to an incorrectness is to present the title of a work with its altered spelling. Some examples have already been cited that may even generate ambiguity regarding which work is being cited. It seems logical to me, although I do not give arguments explicitly, to resort to it even if it were only that institution that recommended adapting the capital letters to the Spanish style. In addition, there are 5 other sources that agree with it and only one that contradicts it. When writing you want to say "mainly", will you write about everything or especially? I suppose you will write about everything, and I also suppose that you will not begin to list books and articles that have been written incorrectly. Unlike you, I do not think we should just determine how it is written, but also how it is correct or more correct to do it. You say "And where is the impropriety of respecting capital letters in foreign works? I do not know how this discussion will end, it seems that the arguments, the sources, the recommendations of importance did not have weight. I was trying, at least with good will, to analyze precisely the sources and your arguments. Well, that would not be dialogue and I hope it's not your case. Anyway, I did not like that last paragraph that you wrote, because I think something had progressed. For example, we had clarified that this is not a battle against the influence of British, or American, culture. And even to be able to solve these cases, it is very possible that we do not see them and the reader suffers them. Being precise is also a matter of reflecting in the most reliable way possible the title of an intellectual creation. That's what I mean by respecting and it does not seem to me that you have to put a quote. On how it is correct to write. The correction in the writing of a linguistic code resides, in a very general, basic and simplified first analysis, in the effectiveness with which an emitter manages to transmit a message to a receiver. But the basic thing is that the code is understandable. I close these parentheses and return to the main point. This foundation is a fallacy called the argument of authority, or magister dixit, included among the fallacies of discursive refutation. That authority is attributed to you by arguing that we must follow it to the letter, but not even the institution attributes itself to such authority, at least not in the e-mail transcribed here and in the topic discussed here. On determining how it is more correct to write. There is a big difference between this issue and that of the titles we discuss. The discussion is about foreign languages, be it German, English, or any other. Above all, above all are three words of the Spanish language. It is about making an effective use of the linguistic code to communicate. And it is logical that this is so, because the typographic needs are very varied and universal rules of application can not be given in all the concrete cases. To me it seems more a provocation and a show of contempt that you make public. You must control yourself and I have nothing to negotiate in this regard. You can say things with and without insults. You have done it with insult and you must control yourself. Since I'm not a kid, I admit that I extended a bit with the message, but with the sole intention of explaining a large number of things to Moraleh. Among others that the argument you have given is a fallacy. You also make a skewed reading of what others write: diff where I insult you, please. And as a clear librarian that I veil for a cordial atmosphere, only that you are the one that provokes this lack of cordiality: in this same thread they complain about your interminable interventions. And in others where you participate, too. And no, I did not read all the thread, I already warned you that people get tired. If you really want to be read, try to summarize. 19:43 13 Mar 2009 In my previous message I recognize that the other message was not very synthetic. No, it seems that no, you go on and on. It is unfortunate to see how you go to ad hominem fallacies to disqualify me in a discussion in which you have already taken a position without having read the arguments of others or apparently understood the topic. And regrettable are the false accusations of a supposed crowd of people who are fed up with my endless messages. Anyway, I will not continue responding to your provocations like the one I mentioned in the previous message. If you have come to argue, do it. I have prepared a synthesis of the long message, in case someone has difficulty understanding it. According to paragraph: About simplicity. Cases pronoun I of English, other substantives of English and German. These cases lead me to think that it will be simpler to respect the titles in a foreign language. Third paragraph: On accuracy. Case of correction of errors in a text appointment. Fourth paragraph: On how it is correct to write. Objective of language as effective communication. Questioning the statement "write badly" by Moraleh about publishers. Deduction of the foundation for the affirmation "write badly" as an argument of authority. Fifth paragraph: On determining how it is more correct to write. It does not correspond to Wikipedia prescription, other cases of non-scientific disciplines in addition to grammar. Sixth paragraph: Above all. Justification of the difference in the effectiveness of the communication that allows the linguistic code of differentiated and defined signs. Criticism of the blind acceptance of the suggestions of said institution. Everything else is discussed for discussion and causes a great waste of resources of wikipedia. And that is considered sabotage, it is already in the second discussion that I tell you. And if you want to realize that I'm after you or that I'm making you hominem, I will not let you know for the third time. 02:26 14 Mar 2009 Actually, the best source on the name of a work is the work itself. when we want to say what the original title is. 02:35 14 Mar 2009 When you put the original title, you put it as it is original, either in English or Cyrillic. When you title the article, explains Rae. And tell your intelligence not to be so sensitive: D Ensada! Correct me if I said a lot. It is easy to be right when all the criticisms that are made towards the best sources available to us are destructive. This does not consist of a mathematical theorem or a physical law that can be discussed to infinity or until an axiom is reached, but simply in data supported by sources, do not forget that. And the sources are already exposed above clearly, ladies and gentlemen. Dalton2 19:46 14 Mar 2009 Your message says everything and nothing. It is a barbarity to put I and the rest in lowercase:), for the simple reason that the truth is being falsified having the source in sight. It does not have to do with whether the Academies say something or the Wikipedians do not pay attention to them, it's just a verifiability problem. 20:28 14 Mar 2009 And by the way, the subject of this section was initially the titles of works written in other alphabets. All these books have mixed support literature and are relatively recent editions. I think those cases would be very easy to determine for all of us and, if necessary, discard them. This is Lampsako, I also believe that there is ambiguity... and that is the big problem that I think we must solve. 03:34 3 Apr 2009 Sources are the rules that he writes, not the typographical aspect of the publisher that publishes him. It could even have been the product of little attention or errata. Escarlati - write me 12:12 3 Apr 2009 To me it seems the other way around. In this process, of course, language has played a preponderant role. 83 - Concerto for Piano and Orchestra no. 83 - Concerto pour Piano et Orchester nº 2 in itself bémol majeur, op. 83 - Concerto per pianoforte e orchestra n. 2 in si bemolle maggiore, op. Escarlati: Please show clear examples of publishers that follow the standard you propose. For the moment I see that the bibliography should be respected. We could even try to review French literature and see how the matter is resolved, when English titles are cited in French texts. And if we establish that rank, what do we do with the doubtful cases? And to top it off: Which source states that music albums tend to graphic style? I think an encyclopedia should worry about writing well, regardless of what others do. That the book writes like that does not make that style right. Although this to give examples does not seem the most appropriate. The English can also write perfectly All you need is love, and they are not committing any grammatical fault. But they capitalize "the important words" simply because they want it that way. There is no logic, only a choice. And the important writers precisely that is what they do: a choice. And that is what the sources gather. At least I know that about the spelling of the English language. In other languages ​​I do not have the less idea I must understand that the proposal of those who oppose the use of capital letters, is to ignore the orthographic rules of other languages ​​and thus use the lowercase as in Spanish. In case of not having access to it, it must be indicated -at least- that such a translation exists. Capitalization for the title will follow the rule of the source language. In English, for example, it is common to put all significant words with an initial capital letter. The translation of the title will be indicated in quotation marks and in normal letters. See the source says: This Manual does not replace the grammars of the language, nor the study of the spelling rules. It simply complements them in some dubious points, especially linked to the publication of texts. We have added to these the observations of many years of experience in the publishing field. Additionally, I have other ones... What is the answer? 06:20 Apr 4, 2009 Why can not it be equally valid? And I doubt they have misspellings on your website. 16:03 4 Apr 2009 Jaontiveros, that's not a source. Search by my account books or links that endorse one or another position is useless, because there are for all criteria, and would serve only as samples with which we would be doing much original research. 17:30 4 Apr 2009 My question is: Should it be taken as valid? Regarding your question: I do not know. It would not be a bad idea, to answer the doubts they have precisely their consultation service. Dalton2 17:49 4 Apr 2009 That's right, the service is at our disposal. It is obvious that we need more clarification, because we are basically touching orthographic rules of other idimoas. 18:11 4 Apr 2009 If this topic is clarified for everyone, I hope so. 18:48 4 Apr 2009 Only a response from the Academies can be taken as valid to explain what one of your published works says or clarify the official position of the institution. The rest is original research, no matter how talented or reputable the person who writes the answer. 19:02 4 Apr 2009 Then it's all a question of sending them a question asking them exactly that. I think it is unthinkable that, having a consultation service on their official website, they will respond lightly. The second answer we have of her already gives The double helix as a clear example. 20:22 4 Apr 2009 Well, I think the sources are very clear. The three sources agree and say the same. 20:31 4 Apr 2009 Well, let's start from the general rule to establish consensus. Again, I think it's common sense that the first personal pronoun in English is capitalized. In the Spanish version the use of capital letters is sharp according to the source of origin. The information indicated within the bibliographic reference must be generally transcribed as it is presented within the source. Details of form such as capitalization, punctuation, etc. they are not necessarily reproduced within the transcript. The general rules that apply to those details of form or style will be examined below 6.3. Capitalization: The use of capitals must be in accordance with the use of the language or the writing of the source. The general conventions applying to these formal and stylistic details are outlinded below. Capitalization: Capitalization shall be accord with the accepted practice for the language or script in wich the information is given. Lés règles générales qui s'appliquent à ces détails de forme ou de sytle sont envisagées ci-après. Titles: a) Books and other monographs. Job titles should be cited as they appear on the cover of the original source, with the same spelling and in the same language. I'm also interested in avoiding blundering orthographic errors by not respecting capital letters in other languages. Thanks for pointing out the error. You already know that wikipedia is constantly improving. That is, apples are pears when it is convenient We will leave examples or this discussion will not end. I say this because I get the impression that you say it, and movies, for example, show many of them all capital letters. We are going to change the subject and talk about the important things, which are not us, but the sources. They dictate, for example, academic essays on music written by prestigious people. Well, that with a query is solved. What I do not know is whether it will be possible to send a query to EnglishClub.com, so they can tell us if they give us permission to change their rules or not. 19:50 5 Apr 2009 Clarifying incision for Dalton and Jaontiveros: the norm of the English titles is found above in secc. In every prestigious publication in English that use is maintained. But anyway, I see that the decision to manipulate the titles, even if they are primary sources, is taken. A pity: to my modest understanding, it reduces credibility. The decision has not been made, but I think there is already consensus to respect the original spelling of the other languages, as is to be expected if we want to comply that we do not invent anything. For me, the answer has always been in our policy of sticking to the source, and what better source than the work itself. In those examples, point 10 of this English capitalization record is respected. 17:38 6 Apr 2009 I'm glad to know that the consensus is inclined to respect the original spelling. The problem with English is that there really is no universal norm, as evidenced by the fact that the Library of Congress opts for lowercase letters. If you notice, many books bring the cataloging data, and systematically the common names are capitalized. Therefore, in English there is no impropriety in either of the two forms. One possibility may be to use the Library of Congress catalog as one of the references. Dalton2 21:25 7 Apr 2009 Agree. In addition, I support what Lin Iinao says about keeping the words with an initial capital letter when they exist only in the case of the fairly used I in English. In that I also see agreement, in addition. 22:20 7 Apr 2009 Yes, and I personally agree with that document. What happens is that by saying that "it will be recorded as it appears in the source," it refers to the text itself, and not to its typography. I think that it can not be clearer. Dalton2 22:37 7 Apr 2009 And eye that says orthographic use, and not typographical use. Note that it says "use," and not spelling. I think it does not contradict any of the sources consulted. Dalton2 00:24 8 Apr 2009 It may be that my knowledge is failing, but I see your proposal as a contradiction. I'd appreciate it if you let me see if I'm wrong. 00:43 8 Apr 2009 This is how I see it: Orthographic use: the one that must be done so as not to make spelling mistakes. Dalton2 00:56 8 Apr 2009 It seems to me that when you speak of typography you mean orthotypography. With this qualification, the distinction you make seems to me very correct: spelling is basically the norm and orthotypography is basically style. Maybe then there is a normative position on the matter, but my impression is that they will end up giving mostly non-normative guidelines, in the style of the answers they have given in their consultation service. This can also happen in Spanish, some other wikipedia can detect the error and correct it. In case of finding a source like, it is advisable to look for an alternate source, or try to follow the correct norm. If it is necessary to carry out the translation, follow the orthographic norm of Spanish, that is: Lucy in the diamond sky. But the word spelling does not appear in the quote you give me, and instead you use it. On the other hand, the first source is in English, and in the second, although it is in Spanish, it says at the beginning "The original rules are in English." I repeat that it would be preferable if we used genuinely Spanish standards, and not translated texts or own translations of standards in other languages. Remember that spelling is only part of the grammar.-Jaontiveros, dixi! 01:42 8 Apr 2009 Spelling is part of grammar, but not all grammar is spelling. And I repeat again: genuinely Spanish sources, please. I know that in English there must be many. Dalton2 02:05 8 Apr 2009 Of course my friend!. By the way, you can always take a look here. Art that deals more with the type of letters, design, shape, size. 06:01 Apr 8 2009 Let's not change the direction of this discussion. If you keep on showing foreign rules, I'll continue what you started and what you seem to understand best: to have this discussion in English. Dalton2 15:18 8 Apr 2009 I think it's fine. I hope you reach an agreement. Dalton2 16:52 8 Apr 2009 No one here has authority over anything, only references and understanding of policies. With this I do not mention anyone, I just try to illustrate what I think. Therefore, out of respect for others and especially towards my own person, I retire. This discussion has come to a standstill and there is no consensus however much it is pretended that there is. As the sources are already exposed and the only thing that is being done is to try to interpret them, because I am retiring and that the experts in the subject look for a satisfactory solution for all, either by reasoning or consulting. Dalton2 17:39 8 Apr 2009 Drinipetición I have read a couple of times all the debate and the truth still do not come out of my surprise. Maybe in the future a consensus will be reached and we will unify the positions, but in the meantime, let's accept that in this case it was not possible. I know from a good source that several participants would accept that exit. In fact, it was also like that in our Wikipedia until this version. During those dates, I did not participate in this topic of discussion, but I understand that in the cafe, the matter had already begun to be treated. Well, in short, I have made my position clear, contributing the respective sources that I have researched. If there is no consensus, then it will be necessary to wait. Perhaps if those who debate were more careful to give in to the temptation of easy sarcasm, agreements could be reached more easily. Taking advantage, I think we should add something about the titles of parts of works, which have to be put in quotation marks instead of italics. If I remember correctly, it was once written there but then it was removed, I do not know why. In fact, it is usually recommended in bibliography to write the titles of the books as they come in the source. That is to say, it would be a matter of returning to the state prior to this discussion. I imagine that this norm is also in Sousa and Montaner; If someone has to provide it, better than better. 23:34 9 Apr 2009 Jaontiveros: I ask you to stop omitting information by writing what the sources say. In your quote it says that the title should be presented as in the source, but also adds: "if necessary apply the rules of capitalization." Surely you have noticed the great similarity of these rules. Therefore, I have never omitted the texts, I have highlighted what I consider important and I have always provided the corresponding links. And what meaning would you give to the words transliteration and transcription?. As you will remember I have also made three links from secondary sources. Additionally, you may notice that I am not the only one, within this discussion, who believes that the titles should be respected as they are written in the sources themselves. That is why I have expressed my desire to send a new letter to this department, which will not be possible until next April 13, since the service is not available for vacations. If this information were in capital letters in the original, it could be written according to the German rules, but if this same information were given in Spanish it would have to be "2nd ed. rev. », with« ed. »in lowercase. For the interpretation that is being made of this rule here, it would be necessary to write «2nd, durchges. aufl. ", which seems completely unacceptable to me and in clear contradiction with what is shown in the norm itself. Translation A translation of a title can be included, in square brackets, after the title reproduced, as it is delivered by the source. After the title that appears in the source, and between brackets, you can add a translation of it. The same will be done in the bibliographical references. It is not considered a civic practice to change the use of capital or lowercase in the titles unless there is a clear error or there is inconsistency within the article. The same freedom is when you write references. I have also put bold highlighting both cases, in accordance with the bold letters that were already in the section. Mechaático 19:27 29 Jul 2010 I have undone the edition, precisely because there is no consensus to modify the Manual in that regard. So, the wording prior to the modification that I made in the section is not the result of a consensus. I have exposed this issue in the cafe, waiting for more users to see it. Occasionally, transfers are made from one place to another. 15:29 30 Jul 2010 Well, that's your opinion. Anyway there are three open threads, two in the coffee and this one. It would be desirable to unify the three threads into one. Escarlati - write me 15:44 30 Jul 2010 Hello. A common "error" that I have detected is to use an "incorrect" verb tense in subordinate sentences, probably due to the influence of English. Some typical examples: Supposedly incorrect: He asked him to come. Correct: He asked him to come. Thanks for your kindness in bringing him here, Dalton. I mean "asked him to come". In this way, an entire culture we understand can not be speaking incorrectly, a term that is broad and difficult to define. What remains to be seen, it seems to me is: A better definition of the norm to which you are referring. This is a Style Manual and style is always advised, it is not imposed. Only my opinions, with arguments of course; I hope they serve. Greetings Lampsako 23:56 15 Sep 2008 To both: provide sources, the rest is talk to talk. 05:19 Sep 16, 2008 Let's see, the problem is that I can not find any Latin American website where it is affirmed that what you say is correct. Examples: Yesterday I bought a book. Examples: Spain: I told you not to come. Other countries: I told you not to come. Construction analogous to English, for example. The perfect tense is used primarily to indicate an action that was carried out in the past and is still performed. Although it is also used for those actions recently completed. Examples: I have finished having dinner. Dalton2 10:59 16 Sep 2008 Dalton, the use of verb tenses is not an easy thing to describe and they change from one country to another and within countries over time. I really do not believe that there is a norm to describe, let alone prescribe that. I do not sincerely believe that there is a study and a linguistic norm for that. This thread is here anyway, you can continue to search quietly, no matter that some user passes to provoke us and encourage us to stop arguing and return to the Middle Ages. Greetings friend Lampsako 16:43 16 Sep 2008 «I really do not think there is a rule to describe, let alone prescribe that. I do not sincerely believe there is a study and a linguistic norm for that. " You have added a link to the word "linguistics", but I am sure that you have not read the article to which that link leads, Lampsako. And I have only given my opinion, according to the point of view of millions and millions of people who believe that it is wrong. That's why there are Academies, so you can not say "I have more reason than you" without foundation. One thing is that at a given time the code is modified, but from there to give free letters to offenders there is a stretch. Keep in mind that an encyclopedia is an academic work, not a magazine or a compilation of expressions to use. This is how it works since the Academies were created, probably before all those people who now protest were born. Of course, always try to reach an intermediate solution. That is why here we say «musical band», instead of «musical group», which would be the most used in Spain, or «computer» instead of «computer». Although, honestly, I do not believe that the expressions that I put above are said by a majority of people of the Spanish-speaking world, let alone by the cultured environment. I will not look for more sources, at least for you to see them, because it is clear that your concept of what is right and wrong is different from mine. Language is a social instrument, and its organization is susceptible to politics. Creating organisms that control language guarantees the conservation of something that lasts in us through generations. Naturally, in every political system there are anarchists, who have the right to pronounce themselves, but not to destroy the political system. Imagine it as a health system. Anyway-it's a paragraph that I'm carrying-anyone who reads this will think a truth like a temple. And is that, no matter how much I write, as long as I do not provide evidence to support what I say, it does not help. All this should have been written in a personal capacity, I'm sorry I did it. If someone, from anywhere in the world, can provide sources that support a thesis that refutes what I think, I will have to swallow my words and give him the reason. It's just a matter of waiting and letting it evolve. And sorry for the second time; It's the last thing I write. For that, what are the norms, and in the encyclopedic language they should apply. Another thing is the literary language, much freer in this regard since it may reflect the customs and practices of people who have not been endorsed by the academy. The most reasonable seems to be to respect the mode used by the original authors. Regards, Cinabrium 02:23, 5 Oct 2008 I think it's fine. If it is presumed good faith on the part of some and honesty on the part of others, perfect. Dalton2 18:21, 7 Oct 2008 Hello! I miss a rule or style guide for the use of bold, italics and quotes in the text of the articles. Wikisilki 01:43 5 Oct 2008 I wrote in the style manual about foreigners, but then they withdrew it for having put it without first seeking consensus. See as an example this article from the Encarta encyclopedia:. There are publications, such as the Enciclonet encyclopedia, that do not benefit from this convention. I also wrote a proposal about the fictional names that I then re-found, focusing on the topic of italics in a more general setting:. Although there is still no consensus on these issues. It is also used in some of the information boxes on the right to highlight important data. It would be interesting to provide sources on style rules in this regard and cite the different standards adopted. I do not think it could be made normative, but it would serve as a guide for those who do not decide on one thing or another, increasing the visual coherence of the encyclopedia through the different articles. Dalton2 18:43 7 Oct 2008 It seems absurd to me to link the dates and above all the years. It is completely useless and annoying. It is a bad habit of some editors to make the articles look bluer. The style manual does not talk about whether or not the enacted dates are accepted, but I've seen bots removing links to years. Taking the example of Wikipedia in English, this method of editing should be depreciated. I do not know, then, what do you mean by the "example" of English wikipedia. If it is absurd or useless I suppose it is debatable; what is "annoying" seems simply subjective. Personally I started to put them by imitation of what I saw in all the articles, but I have also seen very expert wikipedistas put them. And so it can continue almost to infinity. But in the meantime, you have introduced the new "rule" without waiting for any consensus or discussion, and from what I have seen then you make corrections and justify them by appealing to the manual without saying that you made the change yourself. I think this one should be reversed. I waited several days for an answer but nobody appealed to my proposal, I made the change as you can see here. Also that indicates my authorship in that edition. If you read the different style manuals of Wikipedia projects you will see that none promotes this editing method. In no Wikipedia is a "custom", is a bad habit of the editors not of the project itself. It is completely annoying and with no purpose other than to make the article more blue. In addition, Wikipedia dictates that only words that are relevant to the article should be linked. A date is clearly relevant yes, but what is the use of linking it if the data is already in the article? They all talk about not linking dates. And finally, here is an example of a bot removing a link to a date, taking into consideration the policies already mentioned. That said, I insist: the clear custom that exists; that you call it "bad" custom I do not see it well. Having blue does not give points to anyone. On the other hand, in one of the texts you mention, it is indicated that previously it was recommended to link dates: this means that you have changed your mind about it in the: wiki. The custom will not have support maybe, but it exists, do not hesitate. I do not presume bad faith in the editors, it is more than anything general disinformation about the matter, because nowhere did it appear if dates should be linked or not. It is more than anything because we always see that there are dates and years linked in the articles. It is also a practice that I used to do before, but when I started to see people and bots removing dates in the Wiki: I decided to see if the policies were being applied correctly. With regard to the random you did in enwiki, I find it strange, because at least in my sector I just see linked dates. I agree with putting this in the café, although I would also like to wait for the opinion of more librarians about it. I myself put myself at your disposal in my discussion. If the verb to be is used to express the date, it must be done without preposition and with the verb in the third person of the singular: It is Monday; It's July 15. In the rest of the cases, the indication of the day goes without preposition and preceded by article: I will call you on Monday; I start my vacation on June 20. That is, the use of the "el" form is suggested for the rest of the cases. The manual also does not indicate that it should only be used "on January 1, 1948". If the titles of works are written in italics or bold, then it seems unnecessary to write with capital letters the main words. In any case, titles of works should always be in italics or, if they are parts in quotation marks. In this way, as you say, ambiguity is avoided. alejandroadan 19:22 30 Jul 2009 If nobody opposes, I will add it soon. alejandroadan 09:29, July 31, 2009 In the section on Internal links, an indication should be made about the convenience of including links to terms even though they do not yet exist. It is a recurring question of those who start. And of course, subject to the general rules regarding links. The term for the foreseeable edition, I think it is in fact unpredictable, as unpredictable are the collaborations of anonymous users. The inclusion of it as an article requested in the list seems interesting, but one should also take into account the overload of said list. Dalton2 19:48 13 Mar 2009 Hello. Lately I have been thinking about the template of} and the "lightness" and subjectivity with which it is sometimes applied. wikisilki | iklisikiw 22:51 21 Jan 2009 Hello. Some time ago this vote was made in which it was decided to include certain changes in this style manual to unify the musical notation used in Wikipedia. I realized that those changes were not included and I think they should be included but I have doubts about how to proceed. Since the manual is a very important part, I do not want to make such changes without consulting and knowing the opinion of other colleagues. wikisilki | iklisikiw 00:12 17 Feb 2009 I have seen numerous musical articles where the verb throw is used to refer to the publication or commercialization. Dalton2 17:51 6 Apr 2009 Edited? By that rule we could write "The agreement with the president turned out to be cool for the country." It is always preferable to use a word whose first meaning is exactly what is intended to communicate. In case any doubt can not be resolved by consulting these official publications, other sources of recognized authority on these topics will be accepted. wikisilki · iklisikiw 10:39 25 Apr 2009 How much haste! But that is not what was said in the cafe. Again you generalize, it is dangerous to generalize because then the pertinent publications can be postcards according to the interpretation of a malicious discussant, do not generalize. I am not going to participate more here in the Manual, because the consensus that you intend to give to that discussion was not truly achieved. Lampsako 13:26 25 Apr 2009 I beg you not to enter into assessments about my intentions or my mood: I have no hurry, I simply transfer to a more appropriate place a discussion on the style manual. And I suggest you moderate the tone of your interventions, phrases such as immoral people do not manipulate the concept then in their unhealthy discussions are a clear lack of civility and the calm in which so far this discussion has proceeded. wikisilki · iklisikiw 19:56 25 Apr 2009 Hello. I see you in a hurry, because there was no consensus, except for the spelling. 22:41 25 Apr 2009 So I insist, I'm not in a hurry. That does not mean that when the New Grammar is finally published, being normative, also the grammar is included. That is why I speak of a general principle, because it covers all possible cases: on a subject, or the Academies have pronounced themselves normatively in their publications or they have not done so. If they have not done so, there is nothing prescribed, and what is recommended by the Academies and other sources of prestige in the subject. wikisilki · iklisikiw 23:45 25 Apr 2009 The question is when are we talking about a prescription? That's why I am opposed to the wording that you propose. 09:16 26 Apr 2009 For me, the consensus was clear and argued, with no reasoned objection, so you can proceed to make the changes. With this I want to point out that it does not matter if the definition of North is not correct, because for this reason it is not necessary to go to the Academies but to the geographers. Discussions will always come out, because let's face it, we like to discuss. wikisilki · iklisikiw 11:20 26 Apr 2009 I completely agree with the previous message. It would suffice to say that we are talking about orthographic rules. 20:39 26 Apr 2009 First of all, apologies for the extension of the message. Let's try to leave all of that aside. I say this because of the experience behind the numerous threads about linguistic issues that I have been able to read. Because, I repeat, it is the most prestigious source we have. My intention can not be further than to alter the mood; I plead for sincerity and truthfulness, keys to understanding. Finally, another rhetorical question, this time about that word that I have used so many times: What is prestige? It is what determines the quality of a source. Dalton2 15:31 26 Apr 2009 Hello. The publications themselves are responsible for pointing out when they advise something. The rules of the Spanish language expressed in the academic works of the Academies of the language must be respected. In case any linguistic doubt can not be resolved by consulting said academic works, either because they advise without establishing a rule or because they have not dealt with the subject in question, other sources of recognized authority will be used. on these issues. And add that the doubts are linguistic to exclude those that do not incur in the field of experience of the Academies. I have also added a phrase that specifies the cases in which you can and should go to other sources: when they only advise and when they do not deal with the subject in question. wikisilki · iklisikiw 22:41 26 Apr 2009 If what you want is to talk about "normative works", it is better to say it just like that, and not "official" and much less "academic". I agree with Javier Bezos that it is preferable that the paragraph included be "normative" instead of academic or official. In any case if you want to avoid redundancy in wikisilki writing, you could use "prescriptive". Escarlati - write me 16:20 27 Apr 2009 The normative Spanish encompasses different possibilities in grammar and lexicon and you have to be careful at that point with not going to the extreme of giving as good one or more of what they are. And much of what we are dealing with is not the subject of a style manual. 21:14 28 Apr 2009 It's another good possibility. What is involved is that not everything the Academy says is normative, especially in the consulting service. Of course, when there are no prescriptive or normative sources, expert sources still exist. I said it before and I repeat it now, the editors of wikipedia can not, having expert sources in a subject, sit chair. wikisilki · iklisikiw 16:47 27 Apr 2009 Establishing style norms is not a chair: it is to unify criteria by opting for concrete solutions that are convenient in a given context. The fact of choosing a specific solution from among those that are normatively accepted does not imply that a value judgment is being made on its correctness or incorrectness. Lampsako 17:24 27 Apr 2009 Yes, since 1995, all publications fall under the joint responsibility of the 22 Academies. Precisely what can not be done is to affirm that there are no agreements between the 22 academies. That is a personal, subjective, ideological or cultural opinion for which we Wikipedians are not. Escarlati - write me 17:51 27 Apr 2009 Not exactly. I know it is a matter of nuance, but it is a fact that was made in Spain. In this case, it can be seen that what this grammarian, undoubtedly very expert, preaches, contrary to the way in which most of the works cite a title of foreign work. I would like you to understand me, that is my wish, really. Lampsako 18:30 27 Apr 2009 When a style manual is developed, standards are developed in it. For the development of norms in relation to the language, the criteria of the Academies are followed when they are pronounced on a topic. If the Academies are prioritized, it is because their works are the product of the consensus of many experts. But if we do not have the consensus of many, then we must go to one's experience. And for this, the opinion of an expert is always more advisable than that of a non-expert. wikisilki · iklisikiw 21:57 27 Apr 2009 Yes, but for the things that fit within our style manual we can not always count on experts. There we will find the grammatical and lexical norms for the good use of the language and a guide of examples of the most frequent errors and confusions. By establishing the rules of communication, it acts as a bridge between the publishing house, its editors and the reader. With it, they are unified criteria when communicating with the last recipient of the publications. And of course, with a marked practicality. Key phrase of the quote: they guarantee that the product is what its editors want. Of course not: it is an editorial criterion of Wikipedia. And where it is considered that it is not practical or convenient to unify a criterion, for whatever reasons, silence is maintained. I wanted to mention one other thing, although I do expressly in relation to this discussion. I recently read in a user discussion page an opinion I thought it was wrong. The error here is that there is a big difference that does not allow us to equate this type of discussions. In that case, it is accepted of course, unless there is an evident error, the data provided by the source. Well, but what about the dicussions we are talking about now? False, all this speech appeals to feelings, but has no real support. First because we will have rules: the joint works of the 22 academies. Secondly, because we will also have other norms, agreed according to the practicality and the arguments that we expose in the discussions. I will try to extend and reformulate the proposal, but it should be clear that it is only for questions of style, not content. Finally, it remains to be considered valid a certain use provided it is endorsed by a source of recognized authority. I am not decidedly against this idea, but I think it is something delicate, as seen in the didactic case Sousa and capital letters of titles in foreign language. And then add a definition as specific as possible. That would work for publishers who do not even know what that manual is for. The definition I gave above I believe is valid. In my opinion, we all agree that it is necessary to unify criteria. The problem arises when one group prefers to adapt to the characteristics of an electronic publication and another -more purist- claims the rigor of paper encyclopedias. We are at a crossroads, and in my opinion we must first make clear what we want. There are many models to follow, and many models to create. That is - I think - our starting point. The neutral point of view, Javier, is a wikipedia policy, not a style norm. And it has nothing to do with the use of language. The possible technical difficulties to apply an expert criterion are a reasonable reason to adapt it, but not the taste or caprice of the editors. Something like that leaves the door open precisely to a continuous forex about me I would like it more like that, I think it is more correct otherwise, I do not feel comfortable with myself if I do not do it my way. And of course I am absolutely against that the publishers become primary source in linguistic realizing personal studies or developing own theories. wikisilki · iklisikiw 20:28 28 Apr 2009 Wikisilki, I see very good your intentions and great possibilities of disaster if your proposal is implemented as it is now. It turns out that we are all clear that we have to comply with the rules of spelling and write well, but there is more than that. 21:14 28 Apr 2009 PS: And of course we can invent standards of style, look at the beginning of any article and you will see an invention of ours or almost. 2) Take a look at the English Wikipedia: if there are even rules of style for portals! Of course, the Anglo-Saxons have a style manual culture that is light years ahead of ours. 3) Nobody is saying that it is established in this manual by the Wikipedians what is right or wrong. I have already explained it in one of my previous interventions. 4) We are not talking about the content of the articles, but about the style, the form. As far as I know, etymologies contribute nothing to stylistic questions. 6) Everyone who writes applies his style. A style manual what it does is to unify these styles where it is considered necessary. Without going any further, I am adding articles from an encyclopedia of Medicine written for doctors!, and I have been able to verify that it also contains errors. It's like that saying that "an error erases a thousand hits." If that policy were followed, Wikipedia would have very few articles. Wikipedians are something: ordinary citizens, mostly non-professionals. And we try to use prestigious standards, even if they have the odd fault, like almost all publications. Dalton2 22:11 28 Apr 2009 Excuse me, but what you answer It does not relate to what I ask. Expose the conflicting cases that you have been able to find and we will try together to see what these cases are made of. Your questions are "poisoned" because you know very well what others think, but you still ask. Because I guess they are not rhetorical questions. Try again, do not eat the previous;). Basically I consult in which areas of this style manual we will take what the publications of the Academies say as last word. We all agree that spelling rules are and will continue to be done, but what else? That is basically what wikisilki pretends, I think I am. Dalton2 23:52 28 Apr 2009 It's boring and annoying, but I'm going to make a list of useless questions. the absence of a term and the presence of one of its synonyms or variants make it less preferable to the absent one? Will the orthographic adaptations proposed in the DPD be preferred over pre-existing ones? Are the definitions and etymologies presented correct? Sorry, I had not read the final tagline. 2) Yes, except for possible errors. 3) Yes, except errors, again. If the term absent proves to be of much more widespread use, no. The definitions are not normative, because they cover areas that are not the province of the Academies. As for the etymologies, if there is doubt in front of the one presented by the Academies, other alternatives with their corresponding expert sources can and should be presented. I understand etymology as an archeology of the language, and as such it is possible and interesting to present other alternative sources. I agree with specifying everything that tends to minimize future discussions on repetitive topics. And that affects, for example, how the extension and scope of use of a term is determined. But that is a discussion for conventions of titles that at one time or another there will also have to be addressed. There are rules in them, but not everything they contain is the norm. It's that kind of conclusions that I do not want to get in the way of the editors' work and having seen them too many times what worries me about your proposal. Another one, what happens when the suggestions of any of these alternative sources to the academies propose a form of writing that does not agree with any of our policies? And yes, the current writing of the style manual should be more than enough. Now apparently specifying goes against the spirit of the policies in general. The truth is that we are dizzy partridge a little. In academic subjects, the opinions that count are those of the Academies and the experts in the subject, ball point. Everything else leads to speculation and primary source. wikisilki · iklisikiw 16:21, 29 Apr 2009 It's not like that. There is a difference that you do not want to see, since you opened the thread on this page and I pointed out to you the haste that you had. When we want to be specific there, we see that this is impossible and we will never be able to establish a complete list of "expert" sources. But, anyway, we do not have to take any expert source to determine the rules of style to follow that are not found in the normative works of international organizations dedicated to it. Of course we can establish guidelines to follow, and mention sources in the matter, but the pautras will finally be the result of dialogue and consensus. That is why the criterion is general, because it is not necessary to specify all the expert sources, any expert source is more valid than our opinions, pseudo-academic studies or theories drawn from the magician's hat. wikisilki · iklisikiw 17:53 Apr 29 2009 Your speech is out of place. But what we are talking about here is style, which is simply a convention. None, there is no such "expert" truth. To choose the color of the templates your criteria is as valid as any. To pronounce on academic issues, not for a moment. wikisilki · iklisikiw 18:33 29 Apr 2009 What you say is false. It is also false that of the quotes, when you say that they mean contempt. The quotes in "expert" indicate how relative the term is, as I explained it in more than one occasion. The difference is that you want to impose them as the only criterion. Lampsako 18:54 Apr 29 2009 Wikisilki does not impose them, they impose themselves, because of their normative nature. Which truck carries a tilde in the or is not an imposition of wikisilki, is mandatory in spelling. But no matter how much the Academies are defamed, the truth is that no Wikipedist can impose "truck" without a tilde. Escarlati - write to me 23:52 29 Apr 2009 And that is not something that is in discussion, although at times it seems that yes. I think you were wrong about Escarlati thread. Lampsako 00:24 30 Apr 2009 No, because it responds to your phrase «you want to impose them as the only criterion» with which you went to wikisilki. Escarlati - write me 00:29 30 Apr 2009 You have read it wrong and I must understand that you have not read my previous messages, because I do not mean normative works. Several times I have repeated in this thread that I agree to respect the normative works of the Academies. Please read my messages more carefully, thank you. Lampsako 00:36 30 Apr 2009 I am not going to participate more here in the Manual, because the consensus that you intend to give to that discussion was not really reached. Lampsako 13:26 25 Apr 2009 I already seemed too pretty. 00:39 30 Apr 2009 But you see that no. Some may change their minds if the discussion leads them to do so, others do not, once a position is taken, or that it means death, they will change their opinion. Well, luckily I'm not among the last. Lampsako 00:43 30 Apr 2009 Could you clarify who do you mean by some? because if you are going to enter into personal attacks it would be appreciated if at least you did not cover them with that "some". Lampsako 01:00 30 Apr 2009 Tergiversas what was said, Lampsako. It is to avoid pseudo-academic discourses without any basis. If it is necessary to specify in which fields the academic works of the Academies are prescriptive and in which descriptive, perfect. In the descriptive areas you can also consult other sources to compare, complete and enrich the topic. But based on expert sources, because they are academic topics, not personal taste. Anyway, it is pending that Escarlati respond to me. Lampsako 01:13 30 Apr 2009 I answer you gladly. It does not seem that you have chastened yet. But now we may be able to better understand the situation. You're welcome, obviously, or I'll tell you something and you'll respond to something else, like you just did. A panacea with your attitude, of course. Anyway, I'm talking to other people because Escarlati obviously despises my word and gives all the signs of not even reading my messages. It is everything, the basis of dialogue and consensus is respect for the word of others. Lampsako 02:14 30 Apr 2009 Do not get confused, people deserve respect. Opinions, sometimes yes and sometimes not. Anyway, what I'm saying is not that I do not respect your opinion, but at this point I care little and nothing. The Academies, as you say, should be taken as a prescriptive source in the matter that they prescribe, up to that point of agreement. Tell the person with whom you talk that what you say matters little and nothing is a lack of respect for the person and the same dialogue. Lampsako 02:48 30 Apr 2009 A minimum of moral philosophy: it is the people that are the object of respect, not the opinions. That I am not interested in your opinion does not imply any lack of respect for the person. It just happens that I'm not interested in your opinion. On the other hand, your trick in wikipedia is nothing but a fact, and to the evidence I refer. Moreover, in my opinion your contribution to wikipedia is more harmful than beneficial, and nothing would be lost if you were prevented from editing in it. Escarlati - write me 03:15 30 Apr 2009 Incredible. Lampsako 03:25 30 Apr 2009 Sorry, but that's not acceptable. In real life you can do whatever you want, but if you are not interested here in the opinions of others about the development of the encyclopedia, it does not make sense for you to participate in a debate. Having said that, I would like to clarify that it seems to me that Lampsako does not take much care of what the others think or write huge paragraphs that are almost unrelated to what has been discussed. I ask both of you to take a more constructive attitude. 03:42 30 Apr 2009 That's too lazy and leaves us the same as before. The language and its use cover many areas and the "correction" in some of them is a settled point, in others it does not and in others it is not possible to speak of correction. I take this whole discussion asking you to clarify in which areas there are prescriptions of the Academies and in what works they are. 02:33 30 Apr 2009 It is not necessary. But refusing to admit the normative nature of the works of the Academies, is to opine against expert and pan-Hispanic sources with the sole criterion of the opinion of a wikipedist. I think there were three librarians who told you not to continue influencing this line, if I remember correctly. I am asking for clarification of that paragraph, because I see that it lends itself to too dangerous deductions. 03:17 Apr 30, 2009 Zum is a proposal, as this term indicates. Motoneta is not today a registered word as a term of normative Spanish. And now I am accused of sabotage for worrying about the tendentious use that could be given to a paragraph, is that sabotage and an irrelevant aspect? Which does not mean that it is not a usual term perfectly correct and adequate to the realities that they designate. On the other hand, if these two terms had a normative equivalent, the latter would preferably be used when writing in the scope of an encyclopedia of international scope as it is. These are quite basic concepts for those who have approached minimally to the study of the language. But I see that you confuse normative with wrong. There are numerous words that are not included in the normative dictionary and this does not imply that they are incorrect. 04:25 30 Apr 2009 And I sleeping peacefully while messing around here! There is peace, because the encounters do not lead anywhere. I think that Wikipedians have as much right to make proposals as to question them. But I also think that this thread is being deviated too much for something that, deep down, is not so much, because nobody discusses whether a truck can be written as a truck. It was a proposal, and I say it with no intention of offending, a bit candid. As proof of what I say is this same thread, with its etymologies and the various means of transport, from the modest scooter to the huge trucks. There was consensus in the Café and here on the spelling, but that consensus has always existed. Javier, I think the proposal will only advance if we agree on what we mean by "language standards" and what cases what is written by the Academies is law and in which sources should be contrasted to find the best way or simply accept diversity. Being pessimistic realist, Tuesday is a good day to see if there is progress. 12:47 30 Apr 2009 Sorry for the extension in advance. We should perhaps review in detail the Warnings for the use of this Dictionary that accompany it to see where they prescribe and what and how. From what is inferred that the terms not incorporated are not part of the common standard lexicon, and neither are they sufficiently extended or characteristic to be added to the dictionary. It falls back on the subject in section 2.2. In case of recommendation or advice from academic or regulatory works, you must and can go to other works. Which is an even more substantive issue that should be raised if at all in a poll or vote. My position on this is that in an encyclopedia the standard register of the Academies should be used. There are things in which there is no standard form, like many names of plants and animals or everyday objects. Obviously always There will be those who want to turn it around, but that happens with all established norms: when a troll takes your food, it does not stop being hungry. And if we do not follow it, what do we do? As I said from the beginning, we must follow the norm and the indications of the Academies. In cases where they only advise, we can contrast their criteria with other expert sources, but in the absence of these, the advice and indications they give should be followed. But that's how they only recommend, there's no need to pay attention to what would be nonsense, and it's what has us discussing from article to article, not accepting a criterion agreed upon by experts. Of the absence of a term or a meaning can be inferred that it is absent... For something there are other dictionaries where to look if it is included or what happens. There are other dictionaries to know, several are mentioned in the list. The spelling is established by the Academies, they have not published their grammar and what there is description can be contrasted. A work can be identified as what it wants. The problem here is not the works of the Academies, but the excessively rigid reading that some users are making of them. It is about giving priority to those that do appear, constituting the title of the article. I think that is what should be specified in the Style Manual. To these "recommendations" we could add that the best works of consultation in this regard are those of the Academies of the Language. This is the kind of issues that must be resolved. The general observation that we should try to follow what the academies say is to say little. The proposal is set at the starting point, but it ignores the real problem: the road. The language, Javier, is much richer and more variable than its standard variety, certainly. Precisely for this reason a standard variety is necessary, so that we use those terms and expressions of most common and widespread use among the dispersed and varied community of speakers of the language. I understand what someone is talking about when talking about beans, although in Spain we use Jewish; but if they told me about a scooter, I would not have the slightest idea what they are referring to. When we speak of an encyclopedia, our lexicon can not be so rich and varied that there are people in Ecuador who do not understand a term because it is used only in Spain and nobody else knows it, for example. For this, a more restricted register is used, which the Academies consider common and widespread enough to constitute a standard variety within the kaleidoscope that is the living language. Your criteria, expressed as a standard or as advice, is expert and consensual. When it is a norm it is indisputable, because it is prescriptive. When it is advice, it can be compared with other expert sources. But our criterion as editors, the statistics that we draw from the observation of publications, are a pure primary source not expert, and can not question either the Academies or any other expert source in the field. Wrong the route: our doubts or ignorance are the starting point, the way is the consultation of the appropriate sources, and the destination is what has been established or recommended by them. The problem we have is when some editors, instead of looking at the way, look at their navel and decide to take a shortcut; the result is that we get lost in a forest of meaningless discussions and no academic base. What I am proposing is that we signal better the way so that nobody is involuntarily lost. The featured articles are covered with localisms when there are no standard terms, which is frequent when talking about plants, foods or clothing. When they talk to me about a scooter I think of a yellow jacket and if you tell me a scooter, I think of a board with two wheels and a handlebar, but I look in dictionaries, just in case and I expect the same from those who do not know what a thing is. poroto and do not have the link. 16:34 1 May 2009 About the lack of Esp. The problem appears when one thinks: "I will not pay attention in any way to those sources that call experts, that I do not know, but that I do not want to know because I simply do not want or it does not suit my personal interests". The problem arises when I try to justify my personal interests with all kinds of pseudo-academic theories. This is the first encyclopedia written by non-professionals: let's learn to behave like them. Dalton2 15:11 1 May 2009 Being professional or not is irrelevant, the important thing is the results: "by their acts you will know them". This is what has made Wikipedia great. And Wikipedia will be very large, but in size. I have complained many times about the carelessness of many of the good and outstanding articles regarding the way of writing. Then I started to correct the style of candidate articles to stand out and such was the amount of linguistic barbarities and inaccuracies that I found, that I got tired after reviewing three or four articles. So, what is said, Wikipedia is very big, but not because it is very well written precisely. Dalton2 17:21 1 May 2009 And the changes you have made have been questioned? That's what the invention consists of, right? On the other hand, I would not like an expert on miniature trains to be withdrawn for fear of not writing well. It is a collective work, and each one makes his contributions as best he knows or can to build the articles. That for me is to take action, and not continue correcting atrocities. I repeat once more, and I will not get tired of doing it: What's the problem? No, of course they will not understand magically, it will be necessary first to train them in the use of that select, restricted and rigorous dialect that you want to establish as an inviolable norm. Lampsako 14:23 1 May 2009 I have been able to appreciate for this and other interventions that you have the habit of summarizing or interpreting what others say, leading them to say what they have not said at any time. wikisilki · iklisikiw 15:10 1 May 2009 Wikisilki: You keep asking good questions. But you still do not see the need to answer them. I do not plan to read the previous flame. I do not know very well what they are talking about, although I sense it, but I see that in this battle there is already someone fallen for the cause. Perhaps that duration should be reviewed, given that it has been decided in the course of a contest. It is only an opinion, although based on irony and sarcasm are common currency for these payments. I take this step here to discuss my personal position, which, as usual, will not be taken into account. I repeat that I speak without having read all of the above. The Castilian proposed by that institution is to the Castilian spoken what his mummy is to an Egyptian pharaoh. Perhaps there is some study out there that quantifies the chronological lag in which our sclerotic academics live: to the eye of a good cubero, I estimate it between 5 and 15 years, 500 in some cases. This polluting attitude extends to the language users themselves. So much so, that not long ago some fans of the language were dedicated to promote words that had fallen into disuse! They could also have suggested to the medical school to recover the use of thalidomide, a noble drug that has given fantastic results in the past. Too much adventure for so little body. I wonder what the other languages ​​of the world do so as not to fall into absolute anarchy. Amadís 16:19 1 May 2009 Amadis, I respect your opinion, but I do not share it. Regarding the use of terms already in disuse or other similar topics, it is all in a nutshell a matter of perception of the language. Whenever you are in a critical moment regarding the acceptance of new terms in terms of general use I presume that situations like this occur, with exaltation of the spirits and disqualification of sources such as yours before. Obviously the experts in different subjects contribute their knowledge in them and in that sense I value it as the most. But the Style Manual is, let's say, the correction model that we have, and it is in this sense that it has to point as a reference to the established norm and the recommendations of the experts. And what I hope and desire is that wherever I am mistaken, someone who knows can, pointing out the source that indicates my error, correct it without problems. In case any doubt can not be resolved by consulting these academic works, consensus will be established with sources of recognized authority on the subject. Respect the orthographic rules prescribed in the Spelling of the Academies, as well as the correct use of the orthographic signs. Until the publication of the New Grammar of the Spanish Language regulations, the grammar of the Spanish language established by the Academies and other expert sources will be respected. Mastering the correct use of grammatical laws requires knowledge and practice, both reading and writing. In the event that the reader has problems with the use of grammar when preparing an article, it is advisable to request the revision of the text by a more experienced user before publishing it. In lexicology, the different dictionaries published by the Academies will be considered references. At the semantic level, carefully review what is written, especially in the use of expressions that could lead to misunderstandings. When using a polysemic word, it is recommended that the meaning to be taken in each case be indicated by the strictly linguistic context, not only by the situation or the extralinguistic context. In this way, until the publication of the new normative works corresponding to lexicology and grammar, the doubts and discussions on the criterion of the Academies can be compared and agreed on the basis of other expert criteria. Disagreeing with the writing for the grammar: the work of 2010 will contain parts to some extent normative that should be followed, but will also have descriptive parts. According to the general idea of ​​semantics, but I do not understand what the second means. At first glance, it might seem that the phrase is correct. In the previous example it is not said what kind of experience it was, but our mind fills the gaps and reconstructs the meaning of the text. We do it so fast that we hardly realize it. But there may be other people who are predisposed to read something else and the reconstruction that their mind makes is totally different. It's a real practical example, and I suppose you can intuit much more delicate cases that lend themselves to confusion. I have realized that you are referring to the word polysemic, and I have explained what you already understand, which is the first part. Dalton2 17:23 2 May 2009 I understand that you mean to change expressed by contained. I do not see the problem in which the grammar contains prescription and description, it will remain the normative and reference work agreed by all the academies. Also, at the time it is published, the paragraph will have to be changed, and it will be time to see how it is considered, whether at the same level as Spelling or not. Until then, I think the paragraph is valid. wikisilki · iklisikiw 17:04 2 May 2009 The description is not normative and if other grammars expand or amend the description in the Grammar of 2010, it will have to be considered. For example, I doubt that things like the interrogative "what?" Will appear. or the modal "deja" of my dialect that has to have less than 150 thousand speakers, but that does not take away their existence and corresponds to mention it in the description of the syntax of my dialect or things like that. The same for the lexicon, there are other dictionaries of general reference and there are specialized works in each area that can and should be taken into account to resolve doubts about the relevance of a term. With the changes you made, I think the proposal can thrive. 17:29 2 May 2009 With the lexicon already indicated the possibility of using sources other than academic ones. And as you say, in terms of grammar we will have to consider it when it is published and we know its content. Until then, the paragraph is functional, it refers us to the use of existing grammars. And that is the point in the elaboration of a standard register, it is not only about existence or correction, but that the use is sufficiently widespread for the whole of the Academies to pick it up or not. The logical thing in an encyclopedia that addresses the entire pan-Hispanic community would be to call it ham and cheese sandwich, so that everyone could understand it. No, it means that a more generic and common term will be more intelligible for a greater number of people. The example was about that, not about the construction of a standard standard, on which we agree. 18:39 2 May 2009 In the other we also agree; that the definitions can not be taken as prescriptive or that the etymology can and should be compared or contrasted with others, for example. wikisilki · iklisikiw 21:11 2 May 2009 Wikisilki: I think it's very reasonable. I'm not sure if I agree one hundred percent, but it's a matter of nuances. But as it is, I do not put serious problems. In a previous proposal of mine I began to list references; if it is considered opportune, it can be extended, trying to give sources of all the sites. wikisilki · iklisikiw 23:59 7 May 2009 I see it well and I think that before writing it in the style manual, we would have to write a final copy here and notify the Café to collect recommendations. My notes: Speaking now about the New grammar is confusing. It would: The grammatical norms of the language will be respected and in case of doubt it will be resorted to the works of the Academies or other accredited sources blablablá. Give lists of works in alphabetical order for the consultations on grammar and lexicon, clarifying that they are delivered as a suggestion. Wikisilki, do not be bad and please explain the semantics, I'm still lost with that recommendation. I think that the word polysemy refers to the use of words like "plant", which has several meanings and can lead to misinterpretations. Although I think that leaving the first part is enough, because cases of misunderstanding because of the use of polysemic words there must be very few, if I am not mistaken. Dalton2 01:08 8 May 2009 Oh, sorry. Well, it's an excessive request. 01:14 May 8, 2009 One of those times in which you polemicize questioning the rules of the academy:. Thank you for your efforts to agree on something so necessary. Martingala 09:26 8 May 2009 I have eliminated the topic of polysemy from the manual. In case any doubt can not be resolved by consulting said academic works, consensus will be established with sources of recognized authority on the subject. The orthographic rules prescribed in the Spelling of the Academies will be respected, as well as the correct use of the orthographic signs. The grammar of the Spanish language will be respected and in case of doubt, works of the Academies and other expert sources will be consulted. In the event that the user has problems with the use of grammar when preparing an article, it is advisable to request the revision of the text by a user with greater expertise. In lexicology, the different dictionaries published by the Academies will be considered references. Given the lexicological diversity in the different Spanish-speaking countries, the use of other expert sources will be admitted to elucidate and agree on any doubts in this respect. At the semantic level, what is written will be carefully reviewed, especially in the use of expressions that could lead to misunderstandings. When using a polysemic word, it is advisable that the meaning to be taken in each case can be inferred from the text without needing to know the extralinguistic context. On the lists of works: I think that in this sense the ideal would be that editors with studies in philology you will develop an Annex: Reference works of the Spanish language, indicating a recommended bibliography for each topic. It could be linked through a see also, or in the list of internal links at the end of the manual. wikisilki · iklisikiw 10:42 8 May 2009 PS: What do you think about this message? Before its inclusion in the Manual, editors who wish to review it and give their opinion on it are invited. It seems good to me, except the way the grammar is written. If I understand the semantics well, we should write it in a less obscure way. When using a polysemic word, it is advisable that the meaning to be taken in each case can be inferred from the text without needing to know the extralinguistic context. I am new to this discussion, so forgive me if I return to an already agreed upon topic. Martingala 16:48 8 May 2009 I understand that it refers to extreme cases, like someone with very bad spelling or a speaker of another language who wants to contribute relevant content but does not know our grammar. Otherwise, you have to be brave no more. 16:56 8 May 2009 If I understand it. What I am saying is that a prudent taxpayer who comes to read the manual may feel self-conscious and discouraged from contributing. On the other hand, I support Lin's proposal to write it more clearly, eliminating what is not neccesary. Martingala 21:39 8 May 2009 I apply the suggestions of Lin, and I modify the paragraph to invite the user to doubt his spelling to request help. wikisilki · iklisikiw 00:45 May 9, 2009 Belgrano has suggested that he could also take back the fact that they have to consult the grammar before publishing. wikisilki · iklisikiw 00:15 10 May 2009 Do you think we can apply the changes? wikisilki · iklisikiw 01:15 14 May 2009 I think that's fine. wikisilki · iklisikiw 21:31 14 May 2009 I proceed to move the proposal to the page, then. wikisilki · iklisikiw 15:05 18 May 2009 the use of templates should be less restricted. Here we come to build an encyclopedia, not to create templates, of these we already have too many. Also, I do not see any comment erased, which if it was reversed was a change for the bravas you did to the manual without consulting anyone. And even if you make a recommendation, it is as recommendable as if it were a policy, you must have a good reason not to follow it and your personal taste for the templates is not enough reason. 03:57 26 Apr 2009 As Ensada says, the style manual must be officially followed by all the editors, and only if there is a justified reasoning can one skip the recommendations of it. The difference with the policies lies above all in the sanctioning nature of the former. wikisilki · iklisikiw 11:30 26 Apr 2009 Hello. In the use of Spanish in general and in wikipedia in particular I observe a great tendency to the abusive use of capital letters not justified by the norm. I do not know if it will be contagion of English or simple tendency to the grandiloquent. The tendency to capital letters is very widespread, to the point that the laws that define these figures fall into the error of writing such expressions with capital letters. The example is very pertinent because it illustrates my argument: we tend to write it in capital letters because it seems important to us. With "green zone" it does not occur to us because it is not so important. What I am looking for is an appropriate wording that allows to go from these particular cases to the generic rule. etc., including examples even. The Guatemalan and Spanish Governments signed a bilateral agreement. The generic uses of these same nouns will always be written in lower case: They worked on the works of a Protestant church. Dalton2 18:22 9 Jun 2009 I pray that the discussion in the cafe be taken into account. The consensus was reached for the case of the signaling of Spanish roads. I think it is applicable to other cases and could be included in the style manual to avoid long and tedious future discussions. Please include it in the general style rules, if they consider it relevant. Amadis 11:53 23 May 2009 Amadis: wait a few days to see if someone has something against and if not, be brave and include it yourself in the manual. I, for my part, agree with the inclusion. Martingala 14:23 25 May 2009 I wanted to ask a question about the introduction of roads within tables. Kordas 18:59, June 8, 2009 I'm even against titles like this one. You can always repeat the word within the section and add the link there. Dalton2 21:13 8 Jun 2009 Hello. After seeing the use on many occasions of the historical present in the articles, I have come to the conclusion that it would be appropriate to include in the Style Manual a series of recommendations for its use. In general, it is more rigorous to use the past. The historical present can be used, but not indiscriminately. Therefore it is advisable to use tenses with good common sense, avoiding as much as possible the mixture of past and present without justification, since such a mixture would result in changes in the rhythm of reading that could hinder it and confuse the reader. Let's see what you think those who understand more on these issues. Dalton2 07:10 Jun 11 2009 I think it's fine, safe from minor improvements in the wording of the proposal. Martingala 22:19 14 Jun 2009 I have added a section on the present historical. Dalton2 23:42 Jun 14, 2009 Maybe it's not enough to add it to the style manual, but at least I'll say it in this discussion. I refer to the fact that in Spanish we are lucky to have two existential verbs: to be and to be, being the second useful to refer to a circumstantial or temporary existence. It is a problem more of Hispano-America than of Spain. I do not know how this topic will be treated in the cultured environment. I just wanted to quote this topic in passing. 20:23 20 Jun 2009 Well, I'm sorry I do not live up to the examples; He only intended to make me understand. Dalton2 20:45 20 Jun 2009 It seems to me that the verbs to be and to be do not have great dialectal variation, at least I have not read anything about it and I do not remember that I have hit the grammar of foreign interlocutors in that field. As for translations from English, it is more difficult to distinguish between being and being, it is finding the right preterite and I think that can bring problems in the articles. In principle, the concerts are for orchestra, so it is usually taken for granted. I would say that the given norm is correct, although perhaps more cases could be considered. since it is not used for the treatment of personalities, but it is the title granted by the Church to a person. What is clear is that it should not go in the title of the article. Millars 22:59 13 Jul 2009 Make the changes you see fit. The proposal is based on: Bastardilla is not necessary to clearly differentiate a written text with non-Latin characters from the regular Castilian text. In many cases, italics make it difficult to read these foreign words. Having a clear text in the style manual to which you can link in the edition summary would avoid possible disagreements, long discussions, reversals and others in several articles. The text was added after being discussed in "Corsivo in alfabeti non latini". Regards, Ev 20:21 26 Jul 2009 I see it logical. Dalton2 23:08 26 Jul 2009 It seems to me one of those cases in which readability is clearly a very important factor and the strict application of the norm does not fit. But it is not in us to attribute authorship but to record them as they appear in the aforementioned work. By the way, for when your apologies for the serious insults that you directed us and those that you have not yet retracted?. It is quite uncomfortable to discuss with someone who has insulted you badly and continues to have impunity by reviewing and editing in wikipedia. There is some minor change, but basically it is the same as what was established in 1999. The new official Spelling is planned for next year and will be agreed, apart from that it will have a greater extension. The reviewers, I'm sorry, are not authors and are not considered in biblology: presumably that's why they appear as reviewers and nothing else. It is my interest that said authorship be attributed correctly; If you have any verifiable reference to the contrary, I will accept it with pleasure. Cinabrium 16:34 28 Jul 2009 Javier, can you corroborate all that you say with sources? They would be appreciated and at least I would be convinced. What I do have to say is that you should be blocked forever if you refuse to retract. Escarlati - write me 17:39 28 Jul 2009 Is this reference where the author is indicated? Actually, this discussion seems to me a bit Byzantine; I hope it does not last longer than aesthetically acceptable. In the face of so much evidence, I would pray that this edition of Lin linao be reverted, that without providing arguments or sources in this discussion, he edited it by way of force. Again, would not it be better if you apologized for calling us "bastards" or "flock of hybrids between flying troll and extinct bird without wings"? If you did, the matter would be forgotten, you apologized and we could continue debating normally. Escarlati - write me 18:51 28 Jul 2009 I'm not following the subject because I'm already involved in so many discussions that one can not cope and the tension becomes difficult to carry, but I've asked Cinabrium to apologize. Millars 19:29 28 Jul 2009 Reversing the order of the answer, because the first question will take more space than the second, firstly I will confirm that I will not argue here on issues not related to this discussion. If a group of two or more people, for reasons that I do not know, feel alluded to and insulted by an expression of mine, both my discussion page and my email link are available. I have not argued this argument in this case, nor do I personally believe that such "secession" exists, that I maintain that the academies have not participated in the elaboration of "Spelling." That the phrase with which I partially substituted the addition made by Dalton2 it is "badly written because it is redundant and ungrammatical." False, because there are many known as "Spelling" and therefore it can never be considered redundant to indicate which of them it is, because, I made a mistake of number agreement as I recognize more "Indicating" the Spelling of the Academies "can lead to confusion regarding the authorship of the work. The work that is cited as the basis for these indications of the" Style Manual "is not referenced anywhere by its title. proposed by Cinabrium satisfactorily resolves all the points in dispute 23:33 28 Jul 2009 How can you claim that the phrase was correct and should not be corrected when the majority of whom is they participated in the discussion argued otherwise? Anyone can see the cover of the Spelling. To say for the third or fourth time that Cinabrium's writing was ungrammatical due to an accidental coincidence error does not seem polite or fair. It is being discussed punctually to whom the authorship of the work belongs, not about personal quarrels or anything else. 23:26 28 Jul 2009 It does not seem that the four references that I put above you are taking into account. The texts you mention make it clear that there was participation from the other Academies and that nobody has questioned. But from there to say so lightly that the work belongs to all the Academies, as if the 22 shared the responsibility of authorship, there is a long stretch. 23:45 28 Jul 2009 First, the arguments that are contributed here matter, not the fact that this or that librarian is. I am, too, and I know very well that if it comes to providing references, any librarian is equal to an anonymous one with ten locks in tow. Second, I read what you contribute and I believe that it credits to use a phrase like which I outlined at the end of my previous comment. But I think there is a significant qualitative difference with the cover of the publication itself and other graphics. I insist: it seems perfect if you want to clarify that, beyond that, had the review of the other academies. He did not say it for that, but to refute Gallio's statement that "when the majority of those who participated in the discussion argued otherwise". On the opposite side we are at least four Wikipedians, and we can not doubt the solvency of three of them who have had the confidence of the community, some times twice. Consider my position an abstention. Sic stantibus rebus, the best thing is to say nothing and put spelling of the Spanish language, do not you think? As Perogrullo would say, when we mention a work, nothing better than mentioning it by its title. But the author is who he is, and is the one that appears as such on the cover. It is not me who has to prove that reviewers should not be considered authors, but rather the opposite. From that edition the academic works, whoever appears legally, are pan-Hispanic projects agreed by the 22 academies, and that is the information that we should all take into account. That's much better than making assumptions, and you'll probably find them. The detailed reports of the different Academies have allowed us to achieve a truly pan-Hispanic Spelling. "Wikisilki · iklisikiw 13:54 29 Jul 2009 PD: the copyright owner registers the work, not necessarily the writer. the title in the other mention that is made, and I added the bibliographical reference Cinabrium 15:42 31 Jul 2009 I made a small correction If the matter ended here, it would be the few times I saw an agreement on linguistics on both sides of the puddle A greeting from very close to the Atlantic Ocean, regardless of the fact that the issue was about attribution of authorship and not about linguistics... Who is it to play Rick and who of Captain Renault? goes by. Dalton2 16:12 11 Sep 2009 Oops sorry! As I only reviewed the diff, I thought that here you had exchanged the underline for "quotes" instead of italics Dalton2 17:03 11 Sep 2009 Mmmmh Well, as I regularly edit in biographical, historical or geographical articles. For my part I see no problem in your addition. 17:29 Sep 11, 2009 Well, in order not to be of your interest, you have not had enough time to look at the XD dif. Remember that what originally called my attention was only the confusion of the "quotes" by the italics. I do not understand your comment or what you want to say. Greetings and good evening to you. So I'm not going to continue with what is a full-fledged forerunner. Greetings and even inside I do not know when. That use of the capital letter is possible in English, but not really in Spanish given that, in addition, specialized publications on the subject use these terms without the initial capital. Dalton2 14:12 12 Oct 2009 It is said that it is not recommended to use deferential treatments before the given name. Anyway, I leave evidence that I do not agree with what you just raised, for the reasons stated in the Coffee. It is here, in politics, where you have to make the change if it is considered appropriate. Greetings 3coma14 12:39 30 Oct 2009 For the one that concerns us, for now, is very active. You can always see what consensus is reached, and then link it here. The first are primary and the second secondary. If so, I see that there are many articles to be edited. I know it's not a serious mistake, but it's a detail. The extension of the English quotes is due, among other things, in addition to the imitation of everything Anglo-Saxon, to which standard keyboards do not appear angular. Martingala 13:39 Nov 24, 2009 Martingala: high quotes are traditionally used in many Spanish-speaking countries. They are as "imitation of everything Anglo-Saxon" as the French they are "of everything French". The words of a specialty, if they conform to the Spanish morphology, do not have cursive, and that is the case of manga and anime. That is, a foreign term is being used instead of the one that exists in our language, perhaps to mark the origin or aesthetics of the work as opposed to the word "comic" or the more universal comic. In this sense, I do not see manga and anime as both "words of a specialty" but rather the simple adoption of a foreign name. They are not mere comic equivalents, but they designate a specific style of them, and just as in the specialized language of other arts, it is not surprising that a foreign name is adopted. Another thing is to use manga for other cartoon styles, but it is something that has nothing to do with the italics. Both terms, morphologically compatible with Spanish, also enjoy wide acceptance. But I comic how Luke in Spanish writes it, without a tilde, it is not a word of this language. Therefore, it should go without italics. As for manga, if it works, it comes in the Clave: "Comic type of Japanese origin that is characterized by a simple drawing". Therefore, it is not the same as comics. However, both manga and anime are still, whatever the extent of their use, foreign words and therefore must be written in italics. Regards, wikisilki 14:35 9 Feb 2010 No. Foreign words not adapted. Foreigners that retain their original spelling and have not been adapted, 6.2. Foreign words adapted. Words of foreign origin already incorporated into Spanish or fully adapted to their pronunciation and writing, including proper names, must be subject to the accentuation rules ». Note that it only requires that foreign words not adapted be written in italics, not those that already serve in our language. And since it clarifies that the reason of the italics is that it is a non-adapted extrajerism, and in the adapted ones it does not send special treatment, use the normal style: round. Therefore, we must assume that they are not, at least not for now, so the use of italics proceeds. Neither that they are adapted, they have been taken as such in the English form. Therefore, what is pertinent so as not to sin as a primary source, assuming by the language terms that you yourself say are very recent, is to use italics. Greetings, wikisilki 16:29 10 Feb 2010 Neither can it be said that they are not, and in the case of manga the code already indicates that it is. As a curiosity, note that in Japanese there is also the "extranjerismo" komikku. Cinabrium 17:10 10 Feb 2010 More primary sources. Anime remains, but what is already seen for manga is applicable, mutatis mutandi. They are still that, Japanese words, crude foreigners. There is no proof of adaptation, as much of adoption, and by a restricted circle of speakers, as has been well said. On the other hand, María Moliner online does not contemplate manga as a story. Moreover, the reliability of the code in this regard is very questioned when it indicates that the meaning 8, which is applied to the type of comic, comes etymologically from the Latin manica! nor does it indicate the change of gender from feminine to masculine in that sense. I thought I had made it clear, a transliteration is not a morphological adaptation, even when coincidentally its morphology coincides with that of our language. And while they do not recognize a foreign term as their own and present their morphological adaptation, I will write it in italics. As you say, little else we have to add without repeating ourselves. Greetings, wikisilki 14:25 11 Feb 2010 I ask because in the summary of the changes of an article I read: "I correct some errata and use some constructions more typical of Spanish." Some of them may be somewhat forced for someone who is not from Spain. Splibubay 00:11 14 May 2010 With this modification I intended, in addition to fixing some grammar phrases doubtful and clarify others, homogenize the accentuation of those words so delicate. In the meantime, I believe that the rest of my amendments are still valid, so I reinstate them. Therefore, only when in a sentence there is a risk of ambiguity because the demonstrative can be interpreted in one or another of the functions mentioned above, the demonstration will necessarily have a tilde in its pronominal use. " It is therefore incorrect to check them if there is no ambiguity. However, I insist that the reason why I made the change was the uniformity search, which has now been broken, because the numerous demonstrations and "only" that were already accentuated according to the old norm continue to be so. In one way or another, someone should apply the current consensus to the whole article, something that has now become pending again. Splibubay 06:06 May 26, 2010 Mr. Escarlati, employing likewise synonymous synonymous locution is also correct. Change it if you want by the preferred way also, but, please, do not reverse the rest of the changes without reason. Splibubay 01:46 May 25 2010 The other day I made some basic style changes in this same manual, without expecting them to be a matter of dispute. They have reversed me sharply and without the slightest explanation, even when I did not accompany them with any alteration of the demonstratives or of the word alone, something that has already been discussed above. In response to the rule of the three reversals, and with a spirit of consensus, I refrain from restoring my version again, but I will explain here the reason for my retouching. It also seems to me that the lack of an article in front of words confuses me a little. A change that I have not dared to do and that, however, the Academy recommends is to insert a comma in front of except. That is why I think it is preferable to say in italics and in bold. It is difficult to know which subject can be used. If the subject is the examples of symphony titles that follow the two points, it does not seem very clear that that punctuation mark is correct. The repetition of it also sounds, in my view, frankly wrong; that's why I substituted the second one for myself. Finally, the protasis should be separated with a comma of the apodosis, by preceding it. The omission of the verb in the lizards only rarely requires separating the subject from the circumstantial complement with a comma. Splibubay 06:06 26 May 2010 Splibubay: In relation to «in italics» and «in bold letters», I agree. All the precisions that it makes seem to me quite judicious. Therefore, we must recommend a use, not let each one punctuate with the quotes that come better. Esoy according to the arguments of wikisilki. Escarlati - write me 20:21 28 Jul 2010 It is clear that if there is no consensus, it does not make sense to edit. I think, anyway, that they should take into account what is the usual practice of Wikipedians. I think we could look for a wording that was more consistent with that, although making it clear that, despite being both correct options, the use of Latinas is preferable. It is a minor detail, which would not affect in any way the quality of Wikipedia. If this statement is based on a reference, let's say, wrong, it should be eliminated. It also seems that the section encourages the editor to use the decimal point - thus, with bold letters - without proposing a reasonable justification, as I do not believe that homogenization justifies ethnocentrism. 14:59 2 Sep 2010 Hello again and thanks for the contribution, I find it really valuable. I guess I did not look hard enough or did not search properly and I apologize. However, the original reference is still inappropriate and should be replaced. In addition, the section must be modified to better adapt to the new convention referred to. Therefore I have to make the relevant changes that I hope can be revised. Alrik ♠ 22:53 3 Sep 2010 The separation of thousands with hard space presents some drawbacks when ordering values in tables. Regarding the international standard, what regulatory character does it have? Do not forget that not all the rules are mandatory, while the regulations are. On the other hand, the rules of the Academies have nothing regulatory and are followed above all by prestige and influence. The sorting difference can be a technical problem of MediaWiki; If that were the case, we would have to ask for it to be solved. Neither dots nor commas are inserted in the spaces between groups of three. However, when there are only four digits before or after the decimal marker, it is customary to use a space to isolate a single digit. The practice of grouping digits in this way is a matter of choice; It is not always followed in certain specialized applications such as engineering drawings, financial statements, and scripts to be read by a computer. For numbers in a table, the format used should not vary within one column. Neither points nor commas are inserted in the spaces between groups of three. However, when there are only four digits before or after the decimal mark, it is not customary to use a space to isolate a single digit. The practice of grouping the digits in this way is a matter of choice, not always followed in certain specialized applications, such as engineering drawings, financial statements or scripts to be read by a computer. For numbers in a table, the format used should not vary within a column. In that text he says that the digits "can be divided into groups of three by a thin space" and that grouping the digits in that way is a matter of choice. Possibly the difference between one type of space and another is not easily appreciated, but extending the zoom level to 150% or 200% can be better appreciated. And it is precisely referred to specialized applications such as engineering drawings, financial statements, etc. This is not the case for Wikipedia, because it is not an accounting or financial document, nor does it risk any kind of security of that kind. Spelling of numbers written with figures. The four-digit numbers are written without gaps: 2458 2 458). In no case should the figures that make up a number be divided into different lines: 8 327 451. As can be seen, the separation or non-separation between digits varies exclusively with the four-digit numbers. 15:47 5 Sep 2010 Note: the mark of impropriety is the bolapsa or cross enclosed in a red circle. Thank you for your comments, Jaontiveros, although I do not agree with modifying the paragraph breaks that are made in an appointment. I have also modified the recommendation as to not using the separation of thousands in four-digit numbers. Regarding the order in the tables, I'll go through the technical coffee to see if someone can fix it. In this option, the user is given the hard space, but not the fine space. Therefore, users should also be offered the fine space to facilitate editing and be able to comply with what is recommended by the IS. 17:46 5 Sep 2010 Possibly that should be put in the thread that I opened in the cafe. Mecamático 18:21 5 Sep 2010 Well, there is a problem with the fine space, because it does not prevent the figures of the same number from being divided into different lines. As at the moment I do not see a solution for this, I put back the indication to use the hard space that was before and I will ask in the cafe to see if someone can solve it. Mecamático 05:44 6 Sep 2010 Hopefully it can, otherwise it is not a big problem either. 14:53 Sep 6, 2010 You can use a span with white-space style: nowrap. Some modifications will refer to spelling errors, while others will be recommendations for use. The question was whether the new Spelling now says otherwise, that is, if the point is now recommended and the decimal point is accepted as valid. As for the thousands separators it was already indicated that a space should be used blank, that is, neither the commas nor the points should be used. Apparently, it will be necessary to buy a copy to read the news. 21:00 19 Dec 2010 I have put some news on my site, focusing on what I have to do, which are the scientific notations. Although there are few developments in terms of general principles, there are many in matters of detail. Regards, мιѕѕ мαηzαηα 13:48 3 Feb 2011 I see it well. In my opinion, it would be necessary to change something, such as quotes instead of, but otherwise it seems correct. The names of the albums are always in italics. The names of the musical genres are in lowercase and in Spanish. Example: alternative rock instead of alternative rock. Genres that do not have translation are, for example: thrash metal, groove metal or art rock. The names of the bands and groups are in capital letters but without quotation marks or italics. Example: Forbidden The names of songs and albums in Spanish are always in lowercase except the first letter of their first word. For songs or albums in another language, not having reached a consensus, it is left to the creator of the article. In the case of albums, it is written and not, and among the songs it is recommended to write. If nobody objects, in a few days I will include it in the manual. Thank you very much for having seen this, Obelix. Regards, мιѕѕ мαηzαηα 22:01 23 Sep 2011 As there was no opposition, I have included it in the manual. Example: Back in Black, also those written in Spanish. If there is no opposition to the text that I tried to introduce, I think it is the one that should appear in the article. It could be discussed if all the names of songs should be in italics or only those that are not in Spanish. In addition, if the titles of artistic works should be in italics why it is wrong to clarify, or why it is insisted with the round. In this case, the general title will be in italics, and that of the part, with single quotes. In the recommendations of the urgent Spanish it is also insisted on writing them in italics, even in regard to the name of the songs. One thing is the writing of the titles and another that of foreign words, and you are mixing the two things. The foreign words used with their lexical value in the text are written in italics. The question remains as to whether a song is an autonomous work or part, and in this particular case you will see both criteria depending on the style manual, but that has nothing to do with the language of the title. You have not commented on the texts that I pasted or linked. It seems clear that the songs are italicized, and so should the esWP style manual. And if this has not yet been defined, then let it be done, man. If these story sources do not know much, you could try a vote on the subject. With the addition of more users can accumulate more sources that allow us to shed light on this topic. Usually the songs are in quotation marks but could also be in italics; you have it in the Academic Spelling on page 489. Like everything in orthotypography you can not give fixed rules. I believe that by giving unambiguous and clear instructions to the editors, the quality of what we are offering in esWP is improved. It could happen to us, for example, that all the surnames of authors were in versales. However, it is advisable to follow the recommendations on the need to establish graphic distinctions, such as quotation marks or italics. On the other hand, the articles contracted 't,' n and 's of the Dutch never take uppercase, not even after a point. That's what I was answering and none of the quotes you give about titles refers to this particular point. I see, however, that you have changed your mind and now you always use quotes and italics. Bad idea: they are typographic resources that are very rarely used at the same time. I ask that this preference be included in the WP style manual, as a way to homogenize the way in which all users let's write here; in this case I am referring to the names of the songs, but one could think of a general norm. I have not changed my mind, I simply try to find solutions to problems, either direct or intermediate, and they can find themselves approaching the issue from different angles. I put links to you that show that the songs are in italics, and you point out that they are part of a work and that's why they go round. If someone writes a song, and registers it, that is an artistic work. All the songs are artistic works before being part of albums. Moreover, they can be sold on separate discs or to be downloaded individually from the web, as independent works. A lot of the composers never published an album, but they created songs, millions of them. The father of a friend was one of them; Today my friend lives on the rents of those artistic works. It has no support to think that all go in round. Wherever it is analyzed, it always comes to the same thing. Now, one way is that, for being artistic works, we put them all in italics either in the language that is. In my edition of 13:44, 17 December 2011 I wrote: It could be discussed if all the names of songs should be in italics or only those that are not in Spanish. It is clear that today I still think the same about what has to be discussed. This obstinacy with the English quotes in the songs I think are part of that Anglophilia, which is not correct to continue promoting. You say about "quotes and italics always". That is why here we change the "Spanish" for the "Spanish", although it is perfectly written in both ways, but in WP we choose only one, drastically nullifying the other. To finish, I pointed out errors and missing in the information presented today in the manual, and proposed different possible and concrete ways to solve them. If the answer will be for more "Barçamadridismos" I prefer that all this remains unanswered, because I am exhausted to continue with the topic. As you say, and with that I fully agree, "we must not lose sight of the fact that WP's rules only concern us". My presentiment has not failed... I no longer go up to the "Barçamadridismo" of wear. If someone shows up, let me announce it on my talk page. The prefixes are really frequent elements in the language, and they are abominably written badly because of ignorance and foreign language interferences, so the percentage of error is very high. In fact, it could be summarized, and I suppose that is what you would do. Copying normative texts for didactic purposes does not infringe any copyright or anything of the kind. When the same word must be used several times in a row but with different prefixes, the lexeme is written only once to avoid reloading the text and in the others it is represented by a hyphen after the prefixes. So, I would appreciate it if you could specifically specify what you are using to argue that there is no plagiarism in this case. Nothing to add about the rest. For example, «re-present» 're-present'. Another is the case, although not too different, of works that still hold all the rights, such as the Spanish Spelling and other works in printed format that are still sold more or less. As I said, we must pay more attention to everything and evaluate each particular case. Also, I would be more careful in your place to modify what others write in the discussions. My proposal to explain in detail how the prefixes are written in Spanish in each particular case still stands. Let's see if it is possible that one day, not too late, it will happen. José Emilio is right and it is you who have to inform you. And as for the pejorative comments you have made about your language skills, I'd better let it go. Wikipedia is an open site and you can write it yourself. I reiterate: In Wikipedia the license admits commercial use, so what you say about the informative use is not applicable. I also find writing inappropriate: its stalk is between one and two cm in diameter, because in scientific publications the numbers are always used. The ideal is to do it in each section but always only once, although if they are of little text, it can be done in a yes and in the next section no. Some biblio will be able to report better. If they are not correct, I would appreciate a little clarification here below. But when we give an angle, we say 34º to repreen an angle of 34 sexagesimal degrees, we join the symbol º to the number. What we would need to decide is whether the space goes or not. Meanwhile, I delete your addition in the Manual. I replace the section according to what you point out and with your example. By using this site, you accept our terms of use and our privacy policy.

Diego started this adventure 18 months ago and is about to finish it. I am sure that Miguel de Cervantes, who was an inveterate reader and who devoured everything within his reach, would have enjoyed this device. Moreover, if this had been his time, he would have acquired it without any doubt for his own rejoicing. This reader developed in Spain has an operating system adapted to the needs of the country's readers, including an extensive dictionary and translator from English to Spanish. Read all kinds of formats and its weight is less than 200 grams. After the Proclamation different groups of the locality will act. Francisca appoints Antonio de Quiñones as chaplain of the convent and establishes it in one of the clauses of this deed. I say that by means of the grace and blessing of God Ntro. And arrived at this point of this article commemorating the fourth centenary of the death of Cervantes; we all have a huge question. If the Cervantes family is not among the relatives with the right to be buried, according to the founding document. In this exhibition the painter's family wanted to unite the two and share with everyone the artistic legacy he left us. The work selected for the exhibition is composed of 75 works belonging to the painter's family, where oils, watercolors and ink drawings predominate. In the exhibition there is a small compendium of what the painter could capture in life during his more than 50 years of artistic career. Works that span his beginnings to which I believe in his last moments of his life. Until 20 years ago the only planetary system that we knew in the universe that we can cover with telescopes was our Solar System. Today we know that there are thousands of planets orbiting around thousands of stars relatively close to us. A talk that we can not miss by the Alcazare astrophysicist who will undoubtedly delight us with his entertaining explanations. The treatment don, which usually accompanies the name of the protagonist of the novel, is written with a lower case letter: Don Quixote. We continue to know and approach the universal work, from the point of view of the reader. Find out how he did it, below: I share these ideas, I have the same appreciation. But the other factor that determines that the event is doomed to failure or at least to pass without pain or glory, is the very essence, the huge impact, the dimension that has Miguel de Cervantes himself. I get the impression that this universal character far exceeds the Board of Communities that has seen before it a challenge too difficult to assume. And it is that Cervantes is so big that it belongs to nobody. As a free spirit was in life, it is in death: it belongs to everyone and belongs to no one. Miguel is a universal and timeless writer. Not even Alcala de Henares, who has him as his son, has openly dared to pull this car. I sincerely believe that the Community Board has regrettably lost a magnificent and unrepeatable occasion. But not everything is lost because although the Centennial can pass without pain or glory, we readers, we can and should make the best possible tribute to a writer: read and know his work.


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